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A small addition: Osgrid is not the only grid that allows you to attach your own region running on your PC or elsewhere, NeverGrid and recently Aviverse also do it, it would be interesting to compile the information to complete this list.
Then on the organization of OpenSim, I am not sure that the developers had thought about all these asset problems at the beginning and it seems very late to propose a redesign of the system. We can regret that personal inventories cannot be saved on your own PC as a viewer option for example. Or that the asset base is not distributed for all grids (still optional...) with a fault tolerance system like the dark web content distribution system...
BUT it is true that strangely OpenSim does not seem to interest the youngest and that the team of developer(s) will perhaps quickly get tired, especially if we add this type of progress to them.
I also regret this race for new functions (to follow SL?) which means that we often add new ones (PBR being the latest) without finalizing functions like HyperGrid which always seem to have problems. It also leads to the obligation to always have more powerful PCs for the servers but also for the Viewers! This does not help to come those who cannot afford high-performance graphics cards...
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Then on the organization of OpenSim, I am not sure that the developers had thought about all these asset problems at the beginning and it seems very late to propose a redesign of the system. We can regret that personal inventories cannot be saved on your own PC as a viewer option for example. Or that the asset base is not distributed for all grids (still optional...) with a fault tolerance system like the dark web content distribution system...
BUT it is true that strangely OpenSim does not seem to interest the youngest and that the team of developer(s) will perhaps quickly get tired, especially if we add this type of progress to them.
I also regret this race for new functions (to follow SL?) which means that we often add new ones (PBR being the latest) without finalizing functions like HyperGrid which always seem to have problems. It also leads to the obligation to always have more powerful PCs for the servers but also for the Viewers! This does not help to come those who cannot afford high-performance graphics cards...
Changes in Second Life inevitably have to be taken over by Firestorm for Second Life. If Firestorm for Second Life changes something, then so does Firestorm for OpenSim. There's only one common codebase for both; they're just compiled using different build flags. And if Firestorm for OpenSim changes something, then OpenSim itself has to follow suit in order to still have a good, compatible viewer.
Thing is, when Second Life introduces a new feature, it currently tends to also remove an old feature. This means: Firestorm for Second Life has to remove it because it can't co-exist with the new feature there. If Firestorm for Second Life removes it, it also disappears from Firestorm for OpenSim. And this means that OpenSim itself will have to change accordingly.
This happened when EEP was introduced: Windlight was removed because it couldn't co-exist with EEP.
PBR was not quite the same, but similar. PBR was also taken as a chance to reduce the complexity of meshes in Second Life. I mean, Second Life had already supported Blinn-Phong normal maps that simulate bumpy surfaces or small surface details. It has optionally been part of the Advanced Lighting Model for many years already.
But hardly any creator used them. Instead, they kept building their stuff for potato computers, for the old Forward Lighting which doesn't support bump maps or normal maps. They added surface bumps and surface details to the meshes, making them ridiculously complex, so that their creations look great on absolute toasters with on-board graphics at the lowest graphics settings possible. These super-detailed surfaces actually bogged computers down more than a bump map or a normal map could.
So what Linden Lab did was: When PBR was introduced to the official viewer, the Advanced Lighting Model was hard-coded to on. The old and simpler Forward Lighting was fully discarded. The one justification for content creators to build with 500 surfaces what could just as well work with two surfaces plus a bump map was removed. And the Lindens told the Firestorm devs to follow suit if they still wanted Firestorm to be allowed as a Second Life viewer.
Since Firestorm for Second Life had to introduce PBR (to please SL users) and remove Forward Lighting and turn the ALM permanently on (to please the Lindens), Firestorm for OpenSim had to do the same. Again, one and the same codebase.
And since Firestorm for OpenSim had to introduce PBR, OpenSim itself had no other choice but to introduce PBR, too.
By the way, there used to be a time when Firestorm for OpenSim had its own codebase. It saw exactly zero maintenance. Firestorm doesn't have dedicated, specialised OpenSim devs. They've got 20 developers. 19 of them are only in Second Life. Only one is in both Second Life (primarily) and OpenSim (when necessary). This ended with two options. Either Firestorm for OpenSim is discontinued altogether. Or it's merged with Firestorm for Second Life again. Fortunately, they did the latter.
Another by the way: Firestorm 7 doesn't require brand-new, top-of-the-line graphics hardware. I'm using upper-mid-range hardware from 2018. Six-core Ryzen, 16GB of RAM, Radeon RX 590 with 8GB of VRAM. Anyone with an actual high-end gaming rig would call this a hopelessly outdated toaster. But it runs Firestorm 7 with ALM permanently on just fine, even with shadows on. And you don't have to fire up all PBR bells and whistles at parties.
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Thing is, when Second Life introduces a new feature, it currently tends to also remove an old feature. This means: Firestorm for Second Life has to remove it because it can't co-exist with the new feature there. If Firestorm for Second Life removes it, it also disappears from Firestorm for OpenSim. And this means that OpenSim itself will have to change accordingly.
This happened when EEP was introduced: Windlight was removed because it couldn't co-exist with EEP.
PBR was not quite the same, but similar. PBR was also taken as a chance to reduce the complexity of meshes in Second Life. I mean, Second Life had already supported Blinn-Phong normal maps that simulate bumpy surfaces or small surface details. It has optionally been part of the Advanced Lighting Model for many years already.
But hardly any creator used them. Instead, they kept building their stuff for potato computers, for the old Forward Lighting which doesn't support bump maps or normal maps. They added surface bumps and surface details to the meshes, making them ridiculously complex, so that their creations look great on absolute toasters with on-board graphics at the lowest graphics settings possible. These super-detailed surfaces actually bogged computers down more than a bump map or a normal map could.
So what Linden Lab did was: When PBR was introduced to the official viewer, the Advanced Lighting Model was hard-coded to on. The old and simpler Forward Lighting was fully discarded. The one justification for content creators to build with 500 surfaces what could just as well work with two surfaces plus a bump map was removed. And the Lindens told the Firestorm devs to follow suit if they still wanted Firestorm to be allowed as a Second Life viewer.
Since Firestorm for Second Life had to introduce PBR (to please SL users) and remove Forward Lighting and turn the ALM permanently on (to please the Lindens), Firestorm for OpenSim had to do the same. Again, one and the same codebase.
And since Firestorm for OpenSim had to introduce PBR, OpenSim itself had no other choice but to introduce PBR, too.
By the way, there used to be a time when Firestorm for OpenSim had its own codebase. It saw exactly zero maintenance. Firestorm doesn't have dedicated, specialised OpenSim devs. They've got 20 developers. 19 of them are only in Second Life. Only one is in both Second Life (primarily) and OpenSim (when necessary). This ended with two options. Either Firestorm for OpenSim is discontinued altogether. Or it's merged with Firestorm for Second Life again. Fortunately, they did the latter.
Another by the way: Firestorm 7 doesn't require brand-new, top-of-the-line graphics hardware. I'm using upper-mid-range hardware from 2018. Six-core Ryzen, 16GB of RAM, Radeon RX 590 with 8GB of VRAM. Anyone with an actual high-end gaming rig would call this a hopelessly outdated toaster. But it runs Firestorm 7 with ALM permanently on just fine, even with shadows on. And you don't have to fire up all PBR bells and whistles at parties.
Thanks Mister OpenSim's History :-)
Yes I understand that Firestorm only keeps one viewer in fact but there was a time when there were more viewers, some of which were based on the open source code of FS, why couldn't this continue with a version dedicated to Opensim maybe even "coded" and validated by the opensim development? No need to change it often if we just debug and optimize opensim without worrying about SL.
(what is a potato computer?)
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Yes I understand that Firestorm only keeps one viewer in fact but there was a time when there were more viewers, some of which were based on the open source code of FS, why couldn't this continue with a version dedicated to Opensim maybe even "coded" and validated by the opensim development? No need to change it often if we just debug and optimize opensim without worrying about SL.
(what is a potato computer?)
A potato computer is a toaster. A machine utterly underpowered for the task (whichever task).
To take an extreme example, a 15-year-old cheapo laptop with Intel GMA on-board graphics for OpenSim.
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To take an extreme example, a 15-year-old cheapo laptop with Intel GMA on-board graphics for OpenSim.
Thank you, I couldn't help but laugh thinking of Mr Potato turning around asking for his angry eyes :-)
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It doesn't really help that a small handful of spare-time OS devs constantly have to keep up with Linden Lab's paid full-time dev staff.
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There is only one coding core dev now afaik, so sure but then I think Core is very difficult if no impossible to get into unlike the past when there were more core devs. Up to 2015 there was a block against any viewer dev joining core who had been invoolved with developing any part of the viewer code in the previous 6 months for potential licensing problems.
It would be the easiest if there were viewer devs who belonged to the OS core developers.
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It would be the easiest if there were viewer devs who belonged to the OS core developers.
One can also download and use the Cool VL viewer which has both the new and old renderer in it and can switch on the fly. People cam download it here: http://sldev.free.fr/
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It is easy explained. No 20 years old knows anymore openGL games. MacOS doesn't support openGL since 13 years already. The whole software would have been made completely new from the scratch. Starting with secure encrypted protocols like Matrix that would solve also the hypergridding problem like you can see in Thirdroom, which is also open source. The whole software is not built for multithreading to use the whole power of a processor so that you can take a cheap aldi Laptop for this game. The physics and engine is not made to leave all the scripts to cheat as if you pretend you have rl physics. Would need a complete new engine with physics like unreal engine and would be then 64 bit software so that there is no bottle neck anymore.
The whole software would need to be exchanged completely. Who will do this as hobby? Average age of opensim users is 60 years. Of course, they have time and are retired. But skills are not there. We don't have developer anymore in opensim. What we call now developers who fix the problems are more admins and can modify things. But not develop. And at least develop new software from the scratch, which would be needed for all the things you would expect. PBR is just an adaption and we see that most are not happy with the new firestorm 7. You need for any new addition to opensim a bigger graphic card just to keep the status quo in performance, because the basic software is what it is: stone age technology. This PBR thing to have real mirrors e.g we had already in the 90s in other game that is called worlds com. But this software was based on renderware and not openGL. Secondlife never had this mirror thing and now it is sold us as new invention, which you could have already in the 90s.
So it is like it is. If you want to play a game that is working with a cheap Laptop for everyone then you have to get new 64 bit software with new engine that uses all cores of a processor for multithreading. If you want to play opensim and want to have new gadgets for this old software then you need an expensive gamer computer with a graphic card that cost alone 1000 to 2000 euro. (My MacBook Air as whole computer just cost 1000 Euro) That's the price to pay for old software technology. The youth won't pay it. We are just Secondlife nostalgic people. That's it
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The whole software would need to be exchanged completely. Who will do this as hobby? Average age of opensim users is 60 years. Of course, they have time and are retired. But skills are not there. We don't have developer anymore in opensim. What we call now developers who fix the problems are more admins and can modify things. But not develop. And at least develop new software from the scratch, which would be needed for all the things you would expect. PBR is just an adaption and we see that most are not happy with the new firestorm 7. You need for any new addition to opensim a bigger graphic card just to keep the status quo in performance, because the basic software is what it is: stone age technology. This PBR thing to have real mirrors e.g we had already in the 90s in other game that is called worlds com. But this software was based on renderware and not openGL. Secondlife never had this mirror thing and now it is sold us as new invention, which you could have already in the 90s.
So it is like it is. If you want to play a game that is working with a cheap Laptop for everyone then you have to get new 64 bit software with new engine that uses all cores of a processor for multithreading. If you want to play opensim and want to have new gadgets for this old software then you need an expensive gamer computer with a graphic card that cost alone 1000 to 2000 euro. (My MacBook Air as whole computer just cost 1000 Euro) That's the price to pay for old software technology. The youth won't pay it. We are just Secondlife nostalgic people. That's it
That's a bit what I saw but without knowing about OpenGL.
But all this must be well known by the developers, why then want to add functions on something from another time? ... The best would be to try to optimize what exists if no one wants to rewrite everything ...
I have examples of users who are changing their PC for a more powerful one to only be able to do the same thing as before ...
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But all this must be well known by the developers, why then want to add functions on something from another time? ... The best would be to try to optimize what exists if no one wants to rewrite everything ...
I have examples of users who are changing their PC for a more powerful one to only be able to do the same thing as before ...
retired people have the money for new gamer computer. I have also a resident who bought now a new gamer Laptop fore more than 5000 euro. she has always 60 fps even with the new Firestorm 7
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That isn't even that difficult. If your machine has some decent oomph, Firestorm 7 is faster than Firestorm 6. Even on my hardware.
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For SL I use the new SLviewer 7 and is good. But my experiences with Firestorm 7 in opensim for my Mac was bad.
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FS 7 is faster and more efficient because it is able to use more than one core of a cpu, which is why even older computers with 2-4 cores are able to run it. And the more cores you have the faster it is. Of course even an older graphics card will dramatically improve performance since FS 7 also makes more efficient use of those.
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yes theoretically it should be now for the first time multithreading. But for my Mac it is worse. Best is still my 6.6.8
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Il est temps de lancer vos régions linkées sur OSGrid pour pourvoir faire vos IAR (et meme les IAR de vos amis qui viendraient dessus en vous donnant leur login ...) https://www.osgrid.org/download.php
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parce que ce que les gens vont sauver qui est déjà corrompu va être réparé en les re important peut-être ?....
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haa oui le "loopback" ou "hairpinning" tu as "expérimenté" ça aussi ?... c'est fou ces "nouveautés" oui !
Il y a un pilote de reseau virtuel pour essayer de contourner le probleme, mais ça ne marche que si le viewer est sur le meme pc que opensim, c'est la "Carte de bouclage Microsoft KM-TEST"
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Il y a un pilote de reseau virtuel pour essayer de contourner le probleme, mais ça ne marche que si le viewer est sur le meme pc que opensim, c'est la "Carte de bouclage Microsoft KM-TEST"
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What a disaster to lose all your creations, I can only imagine all the work you see flying away :'( I thought that when dying SSDs only went into read-only mode... Is it in "Great shape"? Does that mean it is still usable but empty? I dare to advise you like others to contact Samsung but it may be expensive... I hope for a miracle or that you will "digest" this loss. Anyway you see that there are many of us who are in solidarity with you.
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No, what I meant to say is this. Samsung magician software said the status of the ssd was great, no problems or issues of any kind. Next morning... The ssd is totally locked. no access. no read or write. Just completely bricked. It's very weird.
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haaa ok, you changed all the hardware.. best solution to have big performances ;-) I thaught it was software.
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I hope you've prepared an even better shell for yourself because the hypocrites and evildoers of all kinds seem to be more and more active... Anyway, many normal people and I would be happy to see you again, kiss
(coucou à celles qui m'ont bloquée...)
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(coucou à celles qui m'ont bloquée...)
Yes, but there are only about 5 of them at any given time. They are just very loud and hateful. Use the block button and delete those negative comments on your posts. You don't owe anyone a space to spew. I don't care if people call me a coward for deleting comments. My space; my rules. :)
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another communication problem maybe?.... she can't come back maybe because she's afraid of spiders!!! and not for technical reasons....
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I don't see where I said it was new?... It's obvious that it's not since the least dumb has managed to make a region since the release of Opensim.... But you will not have missed that what we find with difficulty as help on the net is in English... even the Ludo site which I indicated the help it gave me! Even his site was not easy to find. I would have been happy to find this information in MY language! But don't worry for me, I can read english...
In this stupid virtual world, must we always have some people to say dirty things? Can't you shut your mouths in these cases and continue your poor little pathetic virtual lives and at least finish the year without drooling?
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In this stupid virtual world, must we always have some people to say dirty things? Can't you shut your mouths in these cases and continue your poor little pathetic virtual lives and at least finish the year without drooling?
Cette connasse avait aussi ajouté qu'elle apportait de nouvelles options en donnant le lien ... Je ne sais pas ce qu'elle n'a pas réussi à lire quand j'ai écrit "Infos ici : https://sheikah.org/install-opensim-0-9-3-0-in-hypergrid-s... (made by @Ludo_Davis !)" ...
Ce qui est dommage c'est qu'elle m'ait bloquée avant que je ne le fasse mais au moins je ne verrai plus cette pute :
Debby Dawn 4m
I offered an alternative way to find more info on this subject and got abuse from the OP,
... ha ha ha
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Ce qui est dommage c'est qu'elle m'ait bloquée avant que je ne le fasse mais au moins je ne verrai plus cette pute :
Debby Dawn 4m
I offered an alternative way to find more info on this subject and got abuse from the OP,
... ha ha ha
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ha bin quand même.... ;-) Mais j'ai bien noté que tout ce qu'on risque c'est de ne pas pouvoir avoir de visite ou bien de ne pas pouvoir revenir après une téléportation en HG. Je pense qu'il faudrait refaire tout ça en utilisant un nom de domaine ou sous domaine pointant vers ton IP externe à la place de valider SYSTEMIP...
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These pages are really great and give a big help ! They save a lot of time, Actually I found it very strange that all this information was not more widely disseminated, in fact I found nothing equivalent at all! Thank you Ludo !!
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