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Jupiter Rowland @JupiterRowland
Germany (Real Reality™), Dorenas World (virtual reality), OSgrid (secondary virtual reality)
Online
Far-travelled on the Hypergrid and convinced of Roth2 v2. |
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Well, I seem to be the only one who sees the Swiss Cafe broken. I've recently seen an in-world picture from someone else in which it's okay.
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That'd be difficult.
Most people use the shapes that come with their ripped SL heads. And ripped SL heads with shapes from times when you had to be a giant in SL are all over the Hypergrid. About half of them seem to use these shapes as they are as the willingness to edit something, anything, in OpenSim has decreased over the last few years. People want it the easy way. They want to use stuff as it is out of the box. Well, and the other half takes one of these shapes and yanks the height slider to 100 because that's what they've always done in SL.
Another issue is that people are used to height measures in SL being inaccurate anyway and not believing in these figures. Thing is, SL measures your height from your feet to your eyes. That's a bug that LL won't fix because it'd break too much stuff. OpenSim, on the other hand, has always measured your height from your feet to the top of your head. But hardly anyone knows about this, and those who do adjust their shapes do so until it looks good, even though they end up giants.
Lastly, you'd have to not only make new, realistic shapes for the lazy ones and add them to the heads, but you'd have to replace these heads all over the Hypergrid, all the way to freebie sims that are hardly maintained anymore.
I know how hard it is to have stuff replaced in a "found that stuff on the Hypergrid" freebie store. Either the owner does zilch, or they don't really understand what you want, but you gave them some nice items, so they hang up your fixed items next to the same unfixed ones because they barely know what they've got on their walls.
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Most people use the shapes that come with their ripped SL heads. And ripped SL heads with shapes from times when you had to be a giant in SL are all over the Hypergrid. About half of them seem to use these shapes as they are as the willingness to edit something, anything, in OpenSim has decreased over the last few years. People want it the easy way. They want to use stuff as it is out of the box. Well, and the other half takes one of these shapes and yanks the height slider to 100 because that's what they've always done in SL.
Another issue is that people are used to height measures in SL being inaccurate anyway and not believing in these figures. Thing is, SL measures your height from your feet to your eyes. That's a bug that LL won't fix because it'd break too much stuff. OpenSim, on the other hand, has always measured your height from your feet to the top of your head. But hardly anyone knows about this, and those who do adjust their shapes do so until it looks good, even though they end up giants.
Lastly, you'd have to not only make new, realistic shapes for the lazy ones and add them to the heads, but you'd have to replace these heads all over the Hypergrid, all the way to freebie sims that are hardly maintained anymore.
I know how hard it is to have stuff replaced in a "found that stuff on the Hypergrid" freebie store. Either the owner does zilch, or they don't really understand what you want, but you gave them some nice items, so they hang up your fixed items next to the same unfixed ones because they barely know what they've got on their walls.
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So first of all, the "Speakeasy" v2.2 is official in a way, a beta release by Áine herself? I didn't know that.
Besides, I don't have a full list of people who knew her in person. I didn't know that you knew her in person, at least not before I started examining the dance machines, otherwise I would have asked you. So my assumption was that you weren't that close to her, and you falsely took a "Clubmaster v2.2" box which had Áine's name on it for official, also seeing as how many people have slapped "v2.2" on Clubmasters they have upgraded themselves, causing a whole lot of confusion.
At the end of the day, it's your decision which Clubmaster to offer in Áine's name. Knowing all this, I'd suggest offering both and adding an explanation to the box with the Speakeasy dance machine. But again, it's your decision and not mine.
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Besides, I don't have a full list of people who knew her in person. I didn't know that you knew her in person, at least not before I started examining the dance machines, otherwise I would have asked you. So my assumption was that you weren't that close to her, and you falsely took a "Clubmaster v2.2" box which had Áine's name on it for official, also seeing as how many people have slapped "v2.2" on Clubmasters they have upgraded themselves, causing a whole lot of confusion.
At the end of the day, it's your decision which Clubmaster to offer in Áine's name. Knowing all this, I'd suggest offering both and adding an explanation to the box with the Speakeasy dance machine. But again, it's your decision and not mine.
Well considering it was all on Littlefield Grid and has been since Aine moved there, and she is listed as a grid admin, common sense would have been to ask the grid owner for the info. I'm just going to leave v2.1 out so nobody thinks we're trying to perpetuate some hoax that we created the v2.2. The whole "official" thing is really nonsense anyway if you want to get down to it. Frankly, whatever build works for the person using it is the build I would think. That's why Aine made it the way she did allowing Full Perm alteration of all of it.
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That's what I've already written about. It's the relabeled guts of a v2.1 plus extra NPCs poured into a disco ball not made by Áine.
I'm going to pay Walter a visit, tell him about that thing which he has put there himself and give him a genuine, original v2.1, made and packaged by Áine in case he doesn't have one.
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I'm going to pay Walter a visit, tell him about that thing which he has put there himself and give him a genuine, original v2.1, made and packaged by Áine in case he doesn't have one.
Of course we have one. While you're playing detective, maybe you want to look back on Aine's original blog about her move to Littlefield:
https://web.archive.org/web/20190506014237/http://ainetuto...
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https://web.archive.org/web/20190506014237/http://ainetuto...
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The stranger it is that her own sim Paramour Shopping only had the Clubmaster v2.0 when Walter took it over.
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The Clubmaster v2.0 does work. I guess even a v1.21 would still work today. But v2.1 has some improvements and extra single dances.
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Two things that I've noticed:
One, do you know the Swiss Cafe? That two-floor building with the Swiss flag, "CAFE" written on the outside, bar counter inside but hardly any other furniture, baked-on spotlight highlights on the walls etc. etc.? There are several derivatives of this building already.
All of them, original and derivatives, have the same bug now: Ground floor. Second window from the left. The frame and the upper part are plain white, they've lost their texture. Everywhere, all over the Hypergrid, no matter where I go.
Two, I keep seeing Adonis 3 with a white right hand and a Bento-less starfish left hand. This could depend on the skin, though.
I see both with multiple avatars on multiple grids each, running very different OpenSim versions. And I see this in all Firestorm versions from 6.3.9 to 7.1.9 as well as in the Cool VL Viewer.
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One, do you know the Swiss Cafe? That two-floor building with the Swiss flag, "CAFE" written on the outside, bar counter inside but hardly any other furniture, baked-on spotlight highlights on the walls etc. etc.? There are several derivatives of this building already.
All of them, original and derivatives, have the same bug now: Ground floor. Second window from the left. The frame and the upper part are plain white, they've lost their texture. Everywhere, all over the Hypergrid, no matter where I go.
Two, I keep seeing Adonis 3 with a white right hand and a Bento-less starfish left hand. This could depend on the skin, though.
I see both with multiple avatars on multiple grids each, running very different OpenSim versions. And I see this in all Firestorm versions from 6.3.9 to 7.1.9 as well as in the Cool VL Viewer.
When I start seeing white textures, I clear my viewer caches and that usually resolves the issue. It seems to happen a lot if and when I use the Opensimulator version of FS to log in to SL. Logging back to my Opensim grid, results in some content turning white.
So I try to always use the Opensim version of FS for Opensim and the SL version for SL.
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So I try to always use the Opensim version of FS for Opensim and the SL version for SL.
Clearing the viewer caches did nothing to solve my problem. In fact, I've tried deleting the entire user directory for Firestorm after saving the settings and having it regenerated. The issue persisted.
And if
* Firestorm on my tower with dedicated AMD graphics
* the Cool VL Viewer on my tower with dedicated AMD graphics
* Firestorm on my laptop with on-board Intel graphics
* the Cool VL Viewer on my laptop with on-board Intel graphics
all show the exact same symptoms and do so for four avatars on two grids, one running OpenSim 0.9.2.0, one running OpenSim 0.9.3.0, then it's highly unlikely that the viewer cache is the issue. Firestorm and the Cool VL Viewer don't have a shared cache, nor do they share a cache across multiple independent machines.
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And if
* Firestorm on my tower with dedicated AMD graphics
* the Cool VL Viewer on my tower with dedicated AMD graphics
* Firestorm on my laptop with on-board Intel graphics
* the Cool VL Viewer on my laptop with on-board Intel graphics
all show the exact same symptoms and do so for four avatars on two grids, one running OpenSim 0.9.2.0, one running OpenSim 0.9.3.0, then it's highly unlikely that the viewer cache is the issue. Firestorm and the Cool VL Viewer don't have a shared cache, nor do they share a cache across multiple independent machines.
Out of curiosity has anyone tried clearing the region's cache? Assets basically flow like this: Robust -> Sim (cached) -> Viewer (cached). If there's a network hiccup between the sim and robust during the initial fetch, then what's in the sim and viewer cache will be broken. If there's a hiccup on the disk the sim is caching to, then what's in the sim and viewer will be broken.
In the case of an HG transfer, I believe the assets going to the foreign grid are going through the region's cache so... Those could likely be affected to.
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In the case of an HG transfer, I believe the assets going to the foreign grid are going through the region's cache so... Those could likely be affected to.
yes we have tried clearing the regions cache, the grid cache, any & all cache that we could clear, we have done this clearing of cache's & then dropping an old backup of each region and it did not work, I have tons of space on our servers so it is not that we lack the space for all of our data
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Hast du einen Pappkameraden aufstellen lassen, oder hat sich der größte Floydd-Fan des Metaversums tatsächlich die Show vor Ort rein-gekeult?
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I don't get inworld as often as I used to, but it's still fun to visit different sims. Glad to see that there are still active groups and new regions coming online.
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There's actually plenty of legal stuff. But you'll rarely find it at freebie stores, not at the big traditional freebie stores that try to hoard as much Hypergrid content as possible and not at the "new hot stuff" freebie stores either.
Usually, there are three reasons for this.
One, it's obscure. It's often hard to find, and so, nobody even knows that it exists. In fact, a lot of it only exists in the inventories of a few avatars anymore.
Two, it can't hold a candle to premium luxury payware released in SL in 2024 and promptly ripped and offered in OpenSim for free. Deck your avatar out in a Ruth2 v4 with Damien Fate clothes etc., and people will take you for a clueless newbie who needs to be told where to get "the good stuff" and how to use it. The only shop owners willing to hang up such content are either those who prefer quantity over quality and never curate any of the items in their shops or the blue-eyed idealists who want to run freebie stores with only legal content.
And three, it often isn't full-perm itself, and hardly any freebie store owner can be bothered to God-Mode such old content. Or worse yet, you can't get the sales boxes, only their contents, so you'd have to rebox everything. Or both.
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Usually, there are three reasons for this.
One, it's obscure. It's often hard to find, and so, nobody even knows that it exists. In fact, a lot of it only exists in the inventories of a few avatars anymore.
Two, it can't hold a candle to premium luxury payware released in SL in 2024 and promptly ripped and offered in OpenSim for free. Deck your avatar out in a Ruth2 v4 with Damien Fate clothes etc., and people will take you for a clueless newbie who needs to be told where to get "the good stuff" and how to use it. The only shop owners willing to hang up such content are either those who prefer quantity over quality and never curate any of the items in their shops or the blue-eyed idealists who want to run freebie stores with only legal content.
And three, it often isn't full-perm itself, and hardly any freebie store owner can be bothered to God-Mode such old content. Or worse yet, you can't get the sales boxes, only their contents, so you'd have to rebox everything. Or both.
Not sure there is lot of demand for Linda Kelly Items or pre 2010 look alike builds. Just sayin its the new stuff and scripts in demand.
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Not much has been made since the copybotting craze really kicked off around 2015. Many creators threw in the towel, and they did before they even tried to make their own meshes. You have to give credit to Linda for being among the few who actually made original, legal, even partly open-source mesh content (Clutterfly) when most others threw in the towel because they couldn't compete with the masses of copybotted SL content.
There may not be as much demand for it as for Lara/LaraX/Legacy/eBody Reborn stuff that's a few months old tops. But there is demand, namely from those very few who want to deck out their avatars in legal content, and who got far enough to not decide that's impossible, give up and get themselves a ripped LaraX.
(Curiously, Clutterfly jewellery is currently spreading across brand-new freebie stores like wild fire. Goes to show that many shop owners have no idea what they're slapping against their shop walls.)
There may be even less demand for layer clothes, regardless of how practical they can be and how they can solve problems that arose when everything went mesh. But again, there is demand. And not only from those who refuse to modernise their avatars beyond 2011.
As for buildings, unfortunately, the choice isn't that big. Free and legal buildings that look really good pretty much only come from Aaack Aardvark. What he builds blows everything from SL out of the water. But it isn't much, and it's mostly only available in his two shops.
Otherwise, if it's legal, and it looks good, it's payware. If it's free and legal, it's often very old prim buildings from times when computers were weaker, and creators weren't quite as talented. Like, fairly low number of prims, doors as thick as the walls and no texture alignment whatsoever. And if it's free, and it's good-looking mesh, it's illegal and ripped from SL.
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There may not be as much demand for it as for Lara/LaraX/Legacy/eBody Reborn stuff that's a few months old tops. But there is demand, namely from those very few who want to deck out their avatars in legal content, and who got far enough to not decide that's impossible, give up and get themselves a ripped LaraX.
(Curiously, Clutterfly jewellery is currently spreading across brand-new freebie stores like wild fire. Goes to show that many shop owners have no idea what they're slapping against their shop walls.)
There may be even less demand for layer clothes, regardless of how practical they can be and how they can solve problems that arose when everything went mesh. But again, there is demand. And not only from those who refuse to modernise their avatars beyond 2011.
As for buildings, unfortunately, the choice isn't that big. Free and legal buildings that look really good pretty much only come from Aaack Aardvark. What he builds blows everything from SL out of the water. But it isn't much, and it's mostly only available in his two shops.
Otherwise, if it's legal, and it looks good, it's payware. If it's free and legal, it's often very old prim buildings from times when computers were weaker, and creators weren't quite as talented. Like, fairly low number of prims, doors as thick as the walls and no texture alignment whatsoever. And if it's free, and it's good-looking mesh, it's illegal and ripped from SL.
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Sometimes you're forced to use God Mode on 100% legal, squeaky-clean content, especially if you refuse to use anything ripped.
For example, mesh clothes. They may be based on Clutterfly meshes, they may be based on Damien Fate meshes, or there may be the super-rare case of fully original mesh clothes rigged for one of the few legal mesh bodies made in and for OpenSim. It isn't like that stuff is all over the freebie stores. Not even the old Deva Moda clothes are, and they're full-perm, but they're too old in a world in which only the newest hotness sells, they're too unsexy in a world in which bare skin equals sexy, and they aren't "rigged for Athena". In many other cases, they're no-transfer, and they can only be found in exactly one shop, if at all. So finding any of them in the first place requires a lot of time, detective work and sheer luck whereas you can get boatloads of Athena stuff just around the corner.
Scenario #1: You've found these amazing clothes that can really be useful for you. You haven't found anything in this style yet, or maybe in this style, but not in this quality. Think "Damien Fate-based jeans, but with actually good textures". But the creator has set them to Alpha Blending, and they look less than optimal in your viewer. Or worse yet, the creator has set them to full bright. On top of that, they're no-modify.
What do you do? Ask the creator to fix them? The creator hasn't been online in many years. It's a wonder that their shop is still there. Throw them away and look for something better? You probably won't find any replacement for them. Throw them away and carry on as if they had never existed? No, these clothes are too useful to throw them away, especially with no replacement.
So what you do is fire up your God Mode, get yourself temporary full perms for these items and fix their settings.
Scenario #2: You have to move grids for some reason. And be it because the grid you're on will shut down. Of course you want to take your stuff with you.
Some of that stuff is clothing, both layer and mesh. It's fairly old, but it's useful, it works decently on your Ruth2 v4 or Roth2 v2 (the mesh clothes may require custom alpha masks), and above all, it's legal. Trouble: It's no-transfer. And some of it can no longer be acquired in-store because the last or only store that offered it has disappeared long ago. You've got some of the last copies in your inventory.
What do you do? Leave that stuff behind when you move? You can't replace it because if you could, you might already have done it. And if you discard it, chances are that'll make entire outfit styles impossible. It took years already until you finally came across these clothes in some obscure shop on a sim not even listed on OSW. And that sim is gone.
Or finally do what people keep preaching you to do? Get yourself a stolen SL body with a stolen SL head, stolen SL hair, a stolen SL skin and stolen SL clothes because they look oh so much better, and that's what everyone does? Out of question. You've had a legal avatar before, you want to keep having a legal avatar.
So what you actually do is fire up your God Mode, change the content in question from no-transfer to transfer and save it from destruction by transferring it to your new avatar.
Sometimes you're forced to use God Mode so that you can keep using legal stuff that was not stolen from SL.
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For example, mesh clothes. They may be based on Clutterfly meshes, they may be based on Damien Fate meshes, or there may be the super-rare case of fully original mesh clothes rigged for one of the few legal mesh bodies made in and for OpenSim. It isn't like that stuff is all over the freebie stores. Not even the old Deva Moda clothes are, and they're full-perm, but they're too old in a world in which only the newest hotness sells, they're too unsexy in a world in which bare skin equals sexy, and they aren't "rigged for Athena". In many other cases, they're no-transfer, and they can only be found in exactly one shop, if at all. So finding any of them in the first place requires a lot of time, detective work and sheer luck whereas you can get boatloads of Athena stuff just around the corner.
Scenario #1: You've found these amazing clothes that can really be useful for you. You haven't found anything in this style yet, or maybe in this style, but not in this quality. Think "Damien Fate-based jeans, but with actually good textures". But the creator has set them to Alpha Blending, and they look less than optimal in your viewer. Or worse yet, the creator has set them to full bright. On top of that, they're no-modify.
What do you do? Ask the creator to fix them? The creator hasn't been online in many years. It's a wonder that their shop is still there. Throw them away and look for something better? You probably won't find any replacement for them. Throw them away and carry on as if they had never existed? No, these clothes are too useful to throw them away, especially with no replacement.
So what you do is fire up your God Mode, get yourself temporary full perms for these items and fix their settings.
Scenario #2: You have to move grids for some reason. And be it because the grid you're on will shut down. Of course you want to take your stuff with you.
Some of that stuff is clothing, both layer and mesh. It's fairly old, but it's useful, it works decently on your Ruth2 v4 or Roth2 v2 (the mesh clothes may require custom alpha masks), and above all, it's legal. Trouble: It's no-transfer. And some of it can no longer be acquired in-store because the last or only store that offered it has disappeared long ago. You've got some of the last copies in your inventory.
What do you do? Leave that stuff behind when you move? You can't replace it because if you could, you might already have done it. And if you discard it, chances are that'll make entire outfit styles impossible. It took years already until you finally came across these clothes in some obscure shop on a sim not even listed on OSW. And that sim is gone.
Or finally do what people keep preaching you to do? Get yourself a stolen SL body with a stolen SL head, stolen SL hair, a stolen SL skin and stolen SL clothes because they look oh so much better, and that's what everyone does? Out of question. You've had a legal avatar before, you want to keep having a legal avatar.
So what you actually do is fire up your God Mode, change the content in question from no-transfer to transfer and save it from destruction by transferring it to your new avatar.
Sometimes you're forced to use God Mode so that you can keep using legal stuff that was not stolen from SL.
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Yes, OpenSim's on-boarding that covers the entire range of questionable to not accessible to newbies to non-existent in the first place is its very own topic. I mean, it's shown often enough that even SL converts struggle after joining OpenSim.
And the on-boarding is the first impression that someone gets of OpenSim.
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And the on-boarding is the first impression that someone gets of OpenSim.
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If you've got a lot of time, you might want to look through Victor DeAngelo's Free Life Grid, especially Nostalgia Neighborhood and Eloquent Estates. He has got a lot of exclusive stuff that you won't see anywhere else.
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It gets stranger and stranger.
I'm at Virtual Beach now, using Firestorm 7.1.9. I can see the visitors list with no problems. Nice black and blue now, not so washed out anymore. Also, I've just updated the regions list which I can see listing regions as expected.
So I can't even reproduce your issue. And I don't think I'm one of the lucky few with a perfect Firestorm 7 system.
I mean, I could try again with the Cool VL Viewer and see what happens, but that wouldn't lead to anything useful.
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I'm at Virtual Beach now, using Firestorm 7.1.9. I can see the visitors list with no problems. Nice black and blue now, not so washed out anymore. Also, I've just updated the regions list which I can see listing regions as expected.
So I can't even reproduce your issue. And I don't think I'm one of the lucky few with a perfect Firestorm 7 system.
I mean, I could try again with the Cool VL Viewer and see what happens, but that wouldn't lead to anything useful.
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I've tested Firestorm 7 on my tower with dedicated graphics on grids running various OpenSim versions from OSgrid's 0.9.3.0 to ArribaSim FreAki which is partly still 0.8.x.x at its core. It worked everywhere.
On the other hand, on my laptop with on-board graphics, Firestorm 7 had a hard time loading an avatar. The debug console claimed it failed to download certain surfaces (Error 503), and the avatar stayed cloudy until I removed all attachments and replaced all textures with plain white. The surroundings worked. That was on 0.9.2.0, and my tower works just fine on the same sim on the same grid with the same avatar.
Both machines run Debian testing.
So it could be a client-side issue, but even that is still mysterious to me. If you could tell me a sim I could visit for a test, I'd do so with the tower and see what happens.
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On the other hand, on my laptop with on-board graphics, Firestorm 7 had a hard time loading an avatar. The debug console claimed it failed to download certain surfaces (Error 503), and the avatar stayed cloudy until I removed all attachments and replaced all textures with plain white. The surroundings worked. That was on 0.9.2.0, and my tower works just fine on the same sim on the same grid with the same avatar.
Both machines run Debian testing.
So it could be a client-side issue, but even that is still mysterious to me. If you could tell me a sim I could visit for a test, I'd do so with the tower and see what happens.
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PBR itself only happens if there's PBR content. And no, you can't switch the rendering engine back to how Firestorm 6 behaved.
As for the boards, this does sound strange. Normally, the behaviour of such boards shouldn't change. But if you've got two boards with probably fully independently developed scripts underneath, and they both act up the same way, it sounds like we'll have quite a number of scripts to adapt and then an even larger number of scripted boards to update.
I mean, Firestorm 7 has only just been rolled out a few days ago. It hasn't been tested against everything in OpenSim yet. So we might be in for a few more surprises, and the Firestorm team might be in for a few more bug reports. But I hope this can be sorted out in-world.
I think I should travel around and check a few boards out there.
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As for the boards, this does sound strange. Normally, the behaviour of such boards shouldn't change. But if you've got two boards with probably fully independently developed scripts underneath, and they both act up the same way, it sounds like we'll have quite a number of scripts to adapt and then an even larger number of scripted boards to update.
I mean, Firestorm 7 has only just been rolled out a few days ago. It hasn't been tested against everything in OpenSim yet. So we might be in for a few more surprises, and the Firestorm team might be in for a few more bug reports. But I hope this can be sorted out in-world.
I think I should travel around and check a few boards out there.
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PSA: This is MY thread.
It's up to ME who gets to decide which comments remain, and which have to go.
Satyr wants us to moderate OSW ourselves, and so I've done. I have enforced the rules of this website which it actually does have, surprise, surprise: https://opensimworld.com/page/terms
I've cleaned this thread up, and I've prevented the worst offenders from ever spewing their toxic waste over my comment threads again.
Come whining about your "freeze peach" all you want. You aren't entitled to be heard by absolutely everyone absolutely everywhere.
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It's up to ME who gets to decide which comments remain, and which have to go.
Satyr wants us to moderate OSW ourselves, and so I've done. I have enforced the rules of this website which it actually does have, surprise, surprise: https://opensimworld.com/page/terms
I've cleaned this thread up, and I've prevented the worst offenders from ever spewing their toxic waste over my comment threads again.
Come whining about your "freeze peach" all you want. You aren't entitled to be heard by absolutely everyone absolutely everywhere.
Great thing, Jupiter. :-) As I told you, I have removed my own off-topic posts myself. I hope now it stays factual and close to the topic. :-)
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