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Suzi_Avonside✦ @Suzi_Avonside
Caerdydd, Cymru
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Wedi bod gwmpas am sbel... Ers 2010 yn achos OSG |
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or are under 7' (2,13m) tall. I've had some trouble in a few places because my avatar is only 5' 6" (1,52m) despite her rather prominent chest!
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Linda Kellie's creations certainly vary a lot, but some of it remains very good. Not matter what, back in the days when Opensim was new Linda Kellie was about the only creator producing in volume. It should also be remembered that Linda gave it all for free and completely waived any proprietorial rights allowing anyone to do anything with stuff she made.
Like us all Linda certainly had her moments as a person, and there was certainly some 'drama' around her (again, we ar all subject to or of drama from time to time) and those calling her the worst of names are those talentless individuals who can only import pirated stuff wheras Linda created all her own content.
I didn't always agree with Linda's stance on things, but she stuck to her principles and argued her case, despite the huge emotional toll that took as she was often being trolled in a none too nice way. No one deserves that and there are people who remain blocked by me because of hateful, misogynistic statements about her.
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Like us all Linda certainly had her moments as a person, and there was certainly some 'drama' around her (again, we ar all subject to or of drama from time to time) and those calling her the worst of names are those talentless individuals who can only import pirated stuff wheras Linda created all her own content.
I didn't always agree with Linda's stance on things, but she stuck to her principles and argued her case, despite the huge emotional toll that took as she was often being trolled in a none too nice way. No one deserves that and there are people who remain blocked by me because of hateful, misogynistic statements about her.
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I have a dedicated Google Drive I use for OAR storage, and also back up to DVD as well as having an HDD clone of my working disk. Using a USB stick is also an option, but remember to plug the USB stick into your PC/laptop every few months to keep data rot at bay.
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This grid needs to do something about the near impossibility of getting there. I'm not alone, as there are many comments about difficulties getting to Chubelz. I've tried from several different locations, but every time I get timed out. Please fix this issue.
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I visit Chubelz often and have never had any difficulty getting there. In OS, in general, I find that landmarks don't always work smoothly. I tend to use the hop here on OSW--perhaps you should try that. It never fails me. And to Chubby--Thanks for all of the lovely items. The new hair shown here is very nice!
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Ich bin nicht der Besitzer des Grids! Ich vermute, aber sie haben einen verbotenen Viewer benutzt. Diese sind in unserem Grid Alle gesperrt wurden!
I am not the owner of the grid! I suspect, but they used a banned viewer. These are all blocked in our grid!
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I am not the owner of the grid! I suspect, but they used a banned viewer. These are all blocked in our grid!
I use the latest Firestorm viewer, and i did use the details from OSW copy/pasted into the viewer map search. Banning copybot viewers is of course up to each individual grid, but a bit of a waste of time in Opensim where everyone who runs their own regions has god powers to change permissions should they so wish.
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Having taken your advice and gone away and done an albeit brief bit of research on the interwebs I can only conclude that it is you who misinformed. All the articles, both popular and academic, (and there are a lot of academic studies out there on this subject) refer to it as 'sexual ageplay'. You may disagree with that usage, but it seems that the usual interpretation is directly opposed to yours. For clarity my search terms were 'ageplay in virtual worlds' using the DuckDuckGo search engine on Brave Browser.
Whilst not generally related to the article above, let's also clarify some differences. According to the New World Notes article dated August 19, 2019:
"Unlike the United States (where the Supreme Court, in 2002, struck down a law prohibiting “virtual” child pornography on First Amendment free speech grounds), many countries criminalize non-photographic images that appear to depict minors in sexual situations."
https://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2019/08/second-life-virtual-agep...
Basically what this means is that two 'cartoon' child characters simulating sexual behaviour is legal, (if not wholesome, or even generally acceptable) so long as those behind the child avatars are adults themselves, i.e. over 18. However, the trouble lies in that not everywhere in the world is the USA, (and I have to stress ALL of my American friends have unhesitatingly said that they find sexual ageplay in virtual worlds both obscene and repugnant, regardless as to whether the avatars are cartoonish in appearance). Similar images would, in Germany and the UK see someone prosecuted with a serious crime, as images do not have to be photographic in order to trigger a prosecution.
My personal approach to child avatars is by all means have one, just don't visit my regions, or appear anywhere on OSGrid Plazas whilst I'm there because I will report it without hesitation. I think most regions in Opensim ban child avatars, partially through the creepiness factor. but also for those of us who have been here a while, the fallout from when the Meta7 grid collapsed in 2011 under somewhat mysterious circumstances, (ostensibly over a copyright claim by a company that came into existence after Meta7 - which just sounds a little weird). Meta7 was notorious for being very lax when it came to sexual ageplay, and that is allegedly why the grid had to close. Afterwards several Opensim grids revised their ToS to underline that they were not a haven for ex Meta7 refugees. Most of us subsequently have decided to play on the extremely safe side and have banned child avatars from our regions.
None of this is to undermine the possible benefits of adults using a child avatar as part of professionally guided therapy in order to work out traumas or other mental health issues stemming from childhood. But there is no need to for anyone to have a child avatar for general use, especially when all are 18+ in RL in any case
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Whilst not generally related to the article above, let's also clarify some differences. According to the New World Notes article dated August 19, 2019:
"Unlike the United States (where the Supreme Court, in 2002, struck down a law prohibiting “virtual” child pornography on First Amendment free speech grounds), many countries criminalize non-photographic images that appear to depict minors in sexual situations."
https://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2019/08/second-life-virtual-agep...
Basically what this means is that two 'cartoon' child characters simulating sexual behaviour is legal, (if not wholesome, or even generally acceptable) so long as those behind the child avatars are adults themselves, i.e. over 18. However, the trouble lies in that not everywhere in the world is the USA, (and I have to stress ALL of my American friends have unhesitatingly said that they find sexual ageplay in virtual worlds both obscene and repugnant, regardless as to whether the avatars are cartoonish in appearance). Similar images would, in Germany and the UK see someone prosecuted with a serious crime, as images do not have to be photographic in order to trigger a prosecution.
My personal approach to child avatars is by all means have one, just don't visit my regions, or appear anywhere on OSGrid Plazas whilst I'm there because I will report it without hesitation. I think most regions in Opensim ban child avatars, partially through the creepiness factor. but also for those of us who have been here a while, the fallout from when the Meta7 grid collapsed in 2011 under somewhat mysterious circumstances, (ostensibly over a copyright claim by a company that came into existence after Meta7 - which just sounds a little weird). Meta7 was notorious for being very lax when it came to sexual ageplay, and that is allegedly why the grid had to close. Afterwards several Opensim grids revised their ToS to underline that they were not a haven for ex Meta7 refugees. Most of us subsequently have decided to play on the extremely safe side and have banned child avatars from our regions.
None of this is to undermine the possible benefits of adults using a child avatar as part of professionally guided therapy in order to work out traumas or other mental health issues stemming from childhood. But there is no need to for anyone to have a child avatar for general use, especially when all are 18+ in RL in any case
I think you hit the nail right on the head @Suzi_Avonside - to me it boils down to grids ToS, and respecting them when HGing. Some don't accept child-looking avis at all, some only on PG area.
The problem to me is when we move the conversation to 'legality' and 'morality' - because the narrative is flawed and inconsistent...and self-righteous inconsistency really bothers me, not matter the topic.
Example: Zoophilia is ALLOWED in SL. There are popular, fully 'ToS-complaint' seems like The Barn, focused on it. You can have sex with horses and dogs there. Yet zoophilia is illegal in most countries - as it's abusive to poor, defenseless, animals.
Same with Gor (as I mentioned somewhere else): it's RP based on slavery, rape, killing too. You can kill avis in SL if enabled in the region...
So my overall take on this conversation: Your grid, your rules. (i.e. Sexual AP not okay. Zoo not okay. Killing yes). But it will always be arbitrary. But people need to drop the whole 'morality' or 'legality' narrative.
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The problem to me is when we move the conversation to 'legality' and 'morality' - because the narrative is flawed and inconsistent...and self-righteous inconsistency really bothers me, not matter the topic.
Example: Zoophilia is ALLOWED in SL. There are popular, fully 'ToS-complaint' seems like The Barn, focused on it. You can have sex with horses and dogs there. Yet zoophilia is illegal in most countries - as it's abusive to poor, defenseless, animals.
Same with Gor (as I mentioned somewhere else): it's RP based on slavery, rape, killing too. You can kill avis in SL if enabled in the region...
So my overall take on this conversation: Your grid, your rules. (i.e. Sexual AP not okay. Zoo not okay. Killing yes). But it will always be arbitrary. But people need to drop the whole 'morality' or 'legality' narrative.
I wouldn't consider myself misinformed at all, basically virtual worlds created this word based on child avatars telling them false info. Sexual Ageplay is never used in real life or in the community.
Ageplay is some one acting a younger age, not where they look like an actual child avatar. Even if you see a child avatar, most times there acting like an adult so how can you consider that Ageplay. My point was that looking like a child Avatar in world doesn't make it Ageplay.
there is a lot of things you said that i do agree on though. in a lot of countries sex between a child and an adult in world would be considered pedo or abuse. In virtual worlds depending on how its portrayed it can be both obscene and repugnant i can agree on that. I did read that article and a few others i came across. The term seems merely an online term made up without any connections to the actual community. However the way its portrayed that is what people think Ageplay is in real life and its not.
As far as your last statement about using it as guiding therapy my point would stand on this too. being in the category of regression its still the same. one acts like a younger age, they do not look like a full real life child.
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Ageplay is some one acting a younger age, not where they look like an actual child avatar. Even if you see a child avatar, most times there acting like an adult so how can you consider that Ageplay. My point was that looking like a child Avatar in world doesn't make it Ageplay.
there is a lot of things you said that i do agree on though. in a lot of countries sex between a child and an adult in world would be considered pedo or abuse. In virtual worlds depending on how its portrayed it can be both obscene and repugnant i can agree on that. I did read that article and a few others i came across. The term seems merely an online term made up without any connections to the actual community. However the way its portrayed that is what people think Ageplay is in real life and its not.
As far as your last statement about using it as guiding therapy my point would stand on this too. being in the category of regression its still the same. one acts like a younger age, they do not look like a full real life child.
I believe in the "real world" some "littles" (adults who may dress/act childish) may engage in "adult activities" but many others do not as they feel it doesnt feel right when they are in "littlespace". I think this just has to be right for the little and his/her caregiver and its noone elses business really. I've not really heard those who engage in this livestyle in RL call it "sexual ageplay" though. It's just "ageplay" (and whatever is done while engaging in that play).
Again though - I stress I am talking about adults engaging in RL roleplay such as Dom/little or Domme/little dynamics.
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Again though - I stress I am talking about adults engaging in RL roleplay such as Dom/little or Domme/little dynamics.
in real life we do not call it sexual Ageplay, never have and never will. its just a made up term, we dont ever want to have sex with kids eithers. again any of that stuff seen online is pedo or incest play.
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Virtual worlds may well have coined the term, but it is virtual worlds that are our point of reference here, and as you will be aware, some terminology has a different meaning depending on the context in which it is used. Therefore ageplay within virtual worlds involves child avatars, and sexual ageplay child avatars or child and adult avatars in sexual simulations. That ageplay might have a different meaning in a different context is neither here nor there - it is what it means within the metaverse that is under discussion here.
The very fact that the several academic papers I looked at all used the term 'sexual ageplay' with a similar and specific meaning, all related to the context of virtual worlds can only mean that the term ageplay, no matter how it is used in other contexts, involves a child avatar.
For the removal of any doubt, any depiction of sexual behaviour between and adult avatar and a child avatar, or simulated sexual behaviour between two avatars that appear to be under 18 years old would be deemed child pornography, even if they were in a virtual world environment. It's not a matter of individual determination, but of the law in the UK and many other countries, and depictions of sexual ageplay is criminalised, even if it is a couple of cartoon avatars.
That ageplay might have a very different meaning outside of virtual worlds does not alter the meaning it has acquired within virtual worlds.
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The very fact that the several academic papers I looked at all used the term 'sexual ageplay' with a similar and specific meaning, all related to the context of virtual worlds can only mean that the term ageplay, no matter how it is used in other contexts, involves a child avatar.
For the removal of any doubt, any depiction of sexual behaviour between and adult avatar and a child avatar, or simulated sexual behaviour between two avatars that appear to be under 18 years old would be deemed child pornography, even if they were in a virtual world environment. It's not a matter of individual determination, but of the law in the UK and many other countries, and depictions of sexual ageplay is criminalised, even if it is a couple of cartoon avatars.
That ageplay might have a very different meaning outside of virtual worlds does not alter the meaning it has acquired within virtual worlds.
If its a couple of cartoon avatars - one (or more) with a child avatar - then yes. However, If its a couple of adult avatars - but one is wearing (for example) a pacifier and diaper (but still an adult avatar) then that is not "criminalised". There is no depiction of a child involved - just two adult avatars engaging in "whatever". I think THIS is (one example) of ageplay that Missresssdiagato is referring to (as opposed to actual child avatars).
If course the other half of this question is...... two adult avatars..... but how old are their "typists"?
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If course the other half of this question is...... two adult avatars..... but how old are their "typists"?
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This sounds a much more promising proposition than Ruth and Roth 2.0 as the constant changes and incompatibilities between the different versions, plus the various forks is confusing. A great project a bit let down by no really well thought out development plan. Hopefully the creators of clothes and avatar accessories will get on board so that those who would prefer to use truly legit content can look good.
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And much of the Opensim metaverse seems to operate along anarchist lines, each community or standalone, or even individual region making their own rules. Sadly, for the ignorant anarchy will always mean lawlessness and disorder. Most will be familiar with the anarchist symbol of a letter A in a circle = Anarchy is Order. Also, anarchists tend to disagree with one another a lot... So the Opensim metaverse is well anarchist in that aspect!
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That old trope about virtual world women being men... I'm sure there are some in Opensim /Second Life who play as a sex other than their RL sex, but as you say, what's the issue? However your basic premise is somewhat false as anyone can use voice morphing technology to change their voice.
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I think that's certainly possible... But the pricing is off the scale! Take a look at the pricing structure: https://unity.com/pricing#plans-individualsand-teams
Costs like that put the cost of developing a home-grown Opensim solution in perspective. Personally I felt that the $60k EchoVoice wanted was a big ask of the Opensim community.
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Costs like that put the cost of developing a home-grown Opensim solution in perspective. Personally I felt that the $60k EchoVoice wanted was a big ask of the Opensim community.
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Discord is a popular work-around, but is sub-optimal (no spatial sound or lipsync) and there are questions about how secure user's personal data is. Discord is a little vague about whether it keeps recordings of people's conversations etc. according to this article: https://www.makeuseof.com/is-discord-safe/
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That pretty much means the same thing as time goes on the number of people with keys will reduce. As it is, Vivox is still pretty restricted unless a paid (very expensive) service is used, as the free version is restricted to 5 avatars.
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There are no other options, that's the whole point. Vivox is less and less an option for voice in Opensim. FreeSwitch is basically a non-starter and any of the other work arounds, (Discord, Skype etc) are clunky and sub-optimal. Towards the end of my comment I highlighted a general need for funding for other aspects of Opensim that need support.
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Also, at least some of us refuse to use a corporate-owned, proprietary, closed-source piece of proven spyware for voice. Especially if it has flaky Linux support on top, or it's actually Windows-only.
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That was a primary concern of mine when I was considering voice options for a project I was involved with in 2014. Voice was a necessity, but Vivox being proprietary and closed source wasn't actually a deal breaker, but the fact that it eavesdrops was.
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I think that part of the problem there is that virtual worlds are so niche. Second Life can afford to pay its developers and also for a Vivox licence. Opensim suffers from a malaise common to opensource/libre projects in that too many mistake the free for free as in free beer rather than freedom. Another common error is to view opensource as hobbyware, which it most certainly isn't. Far from Openlife's view that the opensource community is full of passionate people selflessly giving up their free time to bring us amazing software the truth is that they are passionate, and they do do other work in order to keep a roof over their heads and their families in clothes and food etc, but they'd far rather that people donated money to their projects so that they could give up their day jobs and focus on their projects and bring us much better versions much sooner than is currently the case.
I currently run Ubuntu MATE 22.04 on all my machines, and each time I download and install it on one of my machines I make sure I donate the recommended $2.50 to the project. No one expects those who cannot afford that to pay, but those that can afford to pay that small amount should really do so, in my opinion.
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I currently run Ubuntu MATE 22.04 on all my machines, and each time I download and install it on one of my machines I make sure I donate the recommended $2.50 to the project. No one expects those who cannot afford that to pay, but those that can afford to pay that small amount should really do so, in my opinion.
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I think Jupiter covered that with his Option one - basically it ain't happening, there are no opensource programmers out there willing to work on this project. So the only viable option is to pay for a project.
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Well, there might be open-source programmers willing to work on this, but the professional kind who demands payment. Just because they're paid, doesn't mean their code will be proprietary and closed-source. Novell has paid devs, Red Hat has paid devs, Mozilla has paid devs, Canonical has paid devs...
What you're unlikely to find is a spare-time hobbyist dev willing to develop something like this from scratch for zilch. Maybe if they're passionate about it. But seriously, OpenSim is completely unknown in the open-source community.
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What you're unlikely to find is a spare-time hobbyist dev willing to develop something like this from scratch for zilch. Maybe if they're passionate about it. But seriously, OpenSim is completely unknown in the open-source community.
And if this is the only solution, I'm afraid that with each update, there will be a need for payment. Without contributors who are free from economic ties and are driven by passion, every update will always require an expert. Essentially, we'd be funding a company rather than a project – a company that hires an employee, and for what? To have a voice channel in OpenSim that might not work correctly after the first viewer update. It might be better to try with FreeSWITCH at this point.
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The viewer issue would remain even if FreeSwitch were used, and good luck finding anyone willing to sort that mess out.
There is no reason why, once a voice module were developed that it couldn't be maintained and updated as and when needed. That might well require some payment for the person doing the work, what would be so wrong with that? No one is free from economic ties, we all have bills to pay etc. Even if someone could be found to do it just for the kudos and because they operate solely on passion, they would still only be able to devote some of their leisure time to it, so it would likely a) take a very long time to get to a working stage and b) any updates, bug squashing etc would likely become very delayed, And then what about the documentation?
Passion can't be eaten, and doesn't pay the bills!
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There is no reason why, once a voice module were developed that it couldn't be maintained and updated as and when needed. That might well require some payment for the person doing the work, what would be so wrong with that? No one is free from economic ties, we all have bills to pay etc. Even if someone could be found to do it just for the kudos and because they operate solely on passion, they would still only be able to devote some of their leisure time to it, so it would likely a) take a very long time to get to a working stage and b) any updates, bug squashing etc would likely become very delayed, And then what about the documentation?
Passion can't be eaten, and doesn't pay the bills!
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I've deleted Harper Held's comments (and blocked them) because their initial comment was intemperate and abusive towards me and made assertions based on their very liberal and incorrect interpretation of what I wrote.
Fort clarity, of course no one should feel obliged to contribute more than they can genuinely afford, and nor should they feel any kind of guilt because they are not in a position to contribute. However, whilst I know some people are really struggling, (and I have been there) most people can afford to contribute small sums, including very small sums, if that is all they can afford.
In Wales we used to have a University of Wales, and the very first university college was funded mainly by ordinary working people contributing their sixpences and shillings. The system of healthcare now used in the UK was based on a healthcare system set up by coal miners in a part of Wales where they each contributed a small sum each week so that they and their families could receive comprehensive health care. It's quite amazing what a lot of people, all contributing a small amount can achieve.
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Fort clarity, of course no one should feel obliged to contribute more than they can genuinely afford, and nor should they feel any kind of guilt because they are not in a position to contribute. However, whilst I know some people are really struggling, (and I have been there) most people can afford to contribute small sums, including very small sums, if that is all they can afford.
In Wales we used to have a University of Wales, and the very first university college was funded mainly by ordinary working people contributing their sixpences and shillings. The system of healthcare now used in the UK was based on a healthcare system set up by coal miners in a part of Wales where they each contributed a small sum each week so that they and their families could receive comprehensive health care. It's quite amazing what a lot of people, all contributing a small amount can achieve.
I understand. It has happened in my posts as well – blocking those who are offensive. It doesn't make sense to comment in an offensive manner, even when there are differences of opinion. However, I don't share your viewpoint on this project, as I explained in the comments further below.
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FreeSwitch theoretically works, but is not spatial and there is no lip sync. I know the Moses project settled on it as it was something that they ran themselves and didn't have the security issues that Vivox has. It's supposedly quite difficult to set up, which is hardly ideal.
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Well I have been having to use discord to chat with friends in world, but it would be so much better if we didn't need to invite people to join the voice channel in Discord. Would be nice for people to enter the region and talk to each other without needing to faff about with Discord, Skype or whatever. Spacial audio at this point is purely a luxury that I can live without if it means we can talk in world.
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I don't agree with you about Medicens sans Frontieres, who do vital work, often in very dangerous parts of the world, and who are far from idiots. However, I wish I had your confidence that a solution can and will be found. Whether we like it or not, the primary focus of any viewer is likely to be Second Life, unless of course the Opensim community will cough up the necessaries.
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No Glenn, your comment was off-topic and a rant irrelevant to this thread. Far from being cancelled, you haven't had your 'free speech' rights restricted or denied because you're still free to go and rant somewhere else. I have deleted comments from other people too on this thread for being irrelevant and off-topic. You will note that all of your pertinent comments remain.
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It absolutely was not, but in your mind, because you disagree with it, you label it "OFF TOPIC". Very tyrpical of an uneducated, ignorant weak minded individual. I assume you will now label THIS comment as "racist"? And of course cancel culture it.
With that addressed, I did not discuss your Frontier Sand Medicine idiocy that you found so convenient to address FIRST. You never fully read the reply and merely focused on one part thus formulating in your uneducated mind, that part was all that mattered. No matter, I will now indulge in your own tactic and give you back the Sandy Medicine you so deserve and cancel culture you. I cannot even understand the gibberish Welsh nor do I speak French. But I do speak German and Mandarin, in case you want to claim mental superiority. Please GFY very hard and I no longer value your opinion or care about your concerns. E.S.A.D. Got it? Great!! FYVM.
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With that addressed, I did not discuss your Frontier Sand Medicine idiocy that you found so convenient to address FIRST. You never fully read the reply and merely focused on one part thus formulating in your uneducated mind, that part was all that mattered. No matter, I will now indulge in your own tactic and give you back the Sandy Medicine you so deserve and cancel culture you. I cannot even understand the gibberish Welsh nor do I speak French. But I do speak German and Mandarin, in case you want to claim mental superiority. Please GFY very hard and I no longer value your opinion or care about your concerns. E.S.A.D. Got it? Great!! FYVM.
Glenn, your initial response is still there, and I was responding to you mentioning Medicens Sans Frontieres and simply stating that I disagreed with your dismissal of an organisation that does a lot of good work saving people in zones of the world where those doctors and nurses quite literally risk their lives to help people.
I did read your reply, and stated that I was in agreement.
Your subsequent off-topic rant was irrelevant to the thread.
As for being an 'uneducated, ignorant weak minded individual' It's not me who is throwing their toys out of the pram, nor making extremely xenophobic comments, nor indeed, attempting to insult your intelligence...
I never assumed that you valued my opinion in the first place and you don't know what my concerns are anyway, because Glenn, you don't know me.
You are a disagreeable, nasty little man with a lot of anger issues. Get some help.
I'm not going to delete your post, as it serves far better to show to others what a thoroughly unpleasant person you are.
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I did read your reply, and stated that I was in agreement.
Your subsequent off-topic rant was irrelevant to the thread.
As for being an 'uneducated, ignorant weak minded individual' It's not me who is throwing their toys out of the pram, nor making extremely xenophobic comments, nor indeed, attempting to insult your intelligence...
I never assumed that you valued my opinion in the first place and you don't know what my concerns are anyway, because Glenn, you don't know me.
You are a disagreeable, nasty little man with a lot of anger issues. Get some help.
I'm not going to delete your post, as it serves far better to show to others what a thoroughly unpleasant person you are.
And YOU don't know ME. Nor do you even have the ability to identify properly or distinguish between discussion, topic, subject or rant. But I am sure you will presume I am a mental-midget making late night "rants" when the answers aren't what you want to hear. Of course, another perpetually wrong judgement that I am angry or whatever flavor of the week name you will call me like oh um "xenophobic" because you have nothing else to offer in a discussion. Let's throw in some other perpetually wrong labels you internet warriors love to call everyone, how about: Nazi, Homophobe, racistphobe, regliphobe, skankaphobe, ageaphobe, genderphobe? Did I miss anything you would claim exists in Daniel Webster's big book?
Your presumption that I am angry, another perpetually wrong one. Thanks for the unqualified medical diagnosis and treatment suggestions. I am sure your basket weaving degree at community college qualified you to make that diagnosis.
And lastly, ANOTHER perpetually wrong presumption that I am "little" No, sorry Charlie, I am a 6 foott tall, 190# military veteran.
I will close this by adding, your idiotic Frontier Medicine Sand whatever the hell that is, I presume means DOCTOR WITHOUT BORDERS, is am NGO scam in which 90% of the money never reaches the MASH units for treatment and the idiot doctors are merely morons with suicidal tendencies. Go watch some videos of their heads being chopped off. I would recommend testing your theory by walking in the South Bronx at 4 am loaded with cell phones and nice sneakers, see how much a donation will help you. Then come back here and be their cheerleader, assuming you go get educated first so you can provide accurate information.
Now that we got THAT OFF-TOPIC part out, the original topic, I refuse to contribute to or answer anymore and now knowing you have read that I will cancel culture, case is now closed. FYVM, cya wouldn't wanna byahh buh bye.
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Your presumption that I am angry, another perpetually wrong one. Thanks for the unqualified medical diagnosis and treatment suggestions. I am sure your basket weaving degree at community college qualified you to make that diagnosis.
And lastly, ANOTHER perpetually wrong presumption that I am "little" No, sorry Charlie, I am a 6 foott tall, 190# military veteran.
I will close this by adding, your idiotic Frontier Medicine Sand whatever the hell that is, I presume means DOCTOR WITHOUT BORDERS, is am NGO scam in which 90% of the money never reaches the MASH units for treatment and the idiot doctors are merely morons with suicidal tendencies. Go watch some videos of their heads being chopped off. I would recommend testing your theory by walking in the South Bronx at 4 am loaded with cell phones and nice sneakers, see how much a donation will help you. Then come back here and be their cheerleader, assuming you go get educated first so you can provide accurate information.
Now that we got THAT OFF-TOPIC part out, the original topic, I refuse to contribute to or answer anymore and now knowing you have read that I will cancel culture, case is now closed. FYVM, cya wouldn't wanna byahh buh bye.
I think you just proved my point - you are a nasty, disagreeable little man, and thin skinned too! Do you also happen to be a Trump supporter? Just asking...
And, so sorry to disagree with you Glenn, ( I know how fragile the ego is of men like you) but we are all coming to see exactly what kind of man you are. All the verbal diarrhoea* proves what a thoroughly nasty and small-minded person you are.
*UK English spelling :)
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And, so sorry to disagree with you Glenn, ( I know how fragile the ego is of men like you) but we are all coming to see exactly what kind of man you are. All the verbal diarrhoea* proves what a thoroughly nasty and small-minded person you are.
*UK English spelling :)
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Will you please learn: opensource does not necessarily mean it's free of cost to develop. All projects have at least server costs, and some projects pay their coders. Some opensource applications or operating systems charge for the software, and all opensource means in any real sense is that the code is open for everyone to read, modify, change, make sure there are no nasties hiding in it etc.
EchoVoice is an opensource project, but in order to actually get the project delivered before we all shuttle of our mortal coils professional coders need to be engaged, contracted to do the work, and PAID.There are also other costs, such as running servers etc.
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EchoVoice is an opensource project, but in order to actually get the project delivered before we all shuttle of our mortal coils professional coders need to be engaged, contracted to do the work, and PAID.There are also other costs, such as running servers etc.
Sure, open source means everything you've mentioned. However, it largely depends on the usage license with which the software is initiated. Anyway, I don't see it being useful to pay for a startup that will eventually become a competitor to Vivox. I find a project in the style of FreeSWITCH more useful – open source – where, just like with OpenSimulator, anyone can download the code and reshape it to fit their needs. This would attract a large number of free and interested programmers, much like what happens with many Unix or GNU/Linux-based software.
The server wouldn't be centralized, but each user would have their own, independent from others. So, each grid would have its own voice server. This doesn't incur development costs because I can manage the repositories from my PC, make changes from my PC, and test the software on my PC without requiring sums like $60,000 – and this would be multiplied by the many contributing users. If someone is needed to do this, so be it.
If FreeSWITCH were simpler, it would be ideal to pursue that project. I tried to run it on a Windows server, but with very limited results. Adapting a voice service for viewers isn't simple, but in my opinion, the best solution remains starting with a solid open-source software under the GPL license, integrating the necessary modules (and if needed, moving towards LGPL). This way, everyone can host their own voice server on their machine, decentralized from the rest. Instead of giving money to a project that centralizes voice servers, it creates a completely different type of project and supports a startup that, no matter how open their code might be, aims to have control over the users of its services. OpenSimulator is not like this. If I had to choose, I'd prefer to pay for services from a company like Vivox; at least I know it's reputable and already present in various gaming services, including professional tournaments and Second Life.
However, fundamentally, all GNU/Linux systems are free – they're all cost-free. What you pay for is consultancy and support in the pro versions. GPL licenses are genuinely respected there :)
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The server wouldn't be centralized, but each user would have their own, independent from others. So, each grid would have its own voice server. This doesn't incur development costs because I can manage the repositories from my PC, make changes from my PC, and test the software on my PC without requiring sums like $60,000 – and this would be multiplied by the many contributing users. If someone is needed to do this, so be it.
If FreeSWITCH were simpler, it would be ideal to pursue that project. I tried to run it on a Windows server, but with very limited results. Adapting a voice service for viewers isn't simple, but in my opinion, the best solution remains starting with a solid open-source software under the GPL license, integrating the necessary modules (and if needed, moving towards LGPL). This way, everyone can host their own voice server on their machine, decentralized from the rest. Instead of giving money to a project that centralizes voice servers, it creates a completely different type of project and supports a startup that, no matter how open their code might be, aims to have control over the users of its services. OpenSimulator is not like this. If I had to choose, I'd prefer to pay for services from a company like Vivox; at least I know it's reputable and already present in various gaming services, including professional tournaments and Second Life.
However, fundamentally, all GNU/Linux systems are free – they're all cost-free. What you pay for is consultancy and support in the pro versions. GPL licenses are genuinely respected there :)
The server wouldn't be centralised with EchoVoice or a project based on that as Mumble is a voice server that is run independently as a service by each grid wanting that particular voice solution.
You could set up a voice project tomorrow, and you might, if you were very lucky, attract some interest, but finding people who are ready and willing to code for free will be the difficult bit. Most GNU/Linux distros have a handful of coders who do the work. Only the distros that are backed by major corporate players (IBM, Red Hat, Mandriva and a few others) have significant numbers of coders working on the code as they can afford to pay them.
And whilst there are projects that are, as you say, driven by passion, most of those projects are also pretty up front in letting people know that financial contributions help to allow them to do more work in the project they are passionate about and less working for an employer on stuff they do just to make enough to pay the bills. Maybe if we, the users were a little bit more passionate about making a small donation every time we download and install some of their software they'd be able to give up the day job and concentrate on doing what they are passionate about, and delivering us super and well updated new versions of the software we love? By not contributing when we are able we're basically expecting the developers to pay for the software we use. It might be free to us, but it costs them a considerable amount. Most of the projects run purely on passion have just one person behind them, usually doing a mountain of work and struggling to keep up. Opensim has just one developer when not so very long ago there was a team of developers. There are various reasons for that, some of them social, but I would think that the need to make a living and have a life outside of the day job have a lot to do with the scarcity of people developing independent modules for Opensim.
The healthcare most people in the UK receive is free (at point of need) but that doesn't mean it's without cost. We all pay for it from our taxation, and it's a really good deal, and everyone has comprehensive health cover.
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You could set up a voice project tomorrow, and you might, if you were very lucky, attract some interest, but finding people who are ready and willing to code for free will be the difficult bit. Most GNU/Linux distros have a handful of coders who do the work. Only the distros that are backed by major corporate players (IBM, Red Hat, Mandriva and a few others) have significant numbers of coders working on the code as they can afford to pay them.
And whilst there are projects that are, as you say, driven by passion, most of those projects are also pretty up front in letting people know that financial contributions help to allow them to do more work in the project they are passionate about and less working for an employer on stuff they do just to make enough to pay the bills. Maybe if we, the users were a little bit more passionate about making a small donation every time we download and install some of their software they'd be able to give up the day job and concentrate on doing what they are passionate about, and delivering us super and well updated new versions of the software we love? By not contributing when we are able we're basically expecting the developers to pay for the software we use. It might be free to us, but it costs them a considerable amount. Most of the projects run purely on passion have just one person behind them, usually doing a mountain of work and struggling to keep up. Opensim has just one developer when not so very long ago there was a team of developers. There are various reasons for that, some of them social, but I would think that the need to make a living and have a life outside of the day job have a lot to do with the scarcity of people developing independent modules for Opensim.
The healthcare most people in the UK receive is free (at point of need) but that doesn't mean it's without cost. We all pay for it from our taxation, and it's a really good deal, and everyone has comprehensive health cover.
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Thank you Safine :) If only more people could engage the bit of grey matter between their ears and look at issues the way you have here. I have in the past written similar cost breakdowns to illustrate the power of numbers. Your kind of thinking is the kind of thinking behind how we fund our healthcare system in the UK, so many people all contributing a small relatively amount.
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