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Greetings, Otto! :)
You said, "On the other hand, everyone needs a safe place and we can't just kill them all or push them into suicide, because there is no help that society has to offer other than locking them away."
I agree absolutely with this observation. Some level of therapy and compassion is needed. I have no argument with that position whatsoever.
There are some serious problems with allowing pedophiles into virtual communities, however, that we as responsible adults just can't sidestep in the name of compassion.
First of all, within these relatively anonymous communities, there is no way to ensure the accuracy of much of anything stated as truth. If I say, for example, that I'm over 18 years old, you have only my word on it. You happen to believe it's true in my case, but you can't prove or disprove it. Meanwhile kids posing as adults (and adults posing as kids) run rampant throughout the internet and in particular throughout virtual communities like these, where there are rarely any relatively foolproof methods employed to ensure a particular account is being used by an adult.
How do you prove, then, that the participants in any encounter are all adults? We have evidence that "catfishing" of underage persons is a common occurance on the internet through something as informal as Twitter or Facebook. Deception is pretty simple to employ, and in fact it's a very attractive prospect for a large number of people who might desire to impress or influence (read: manipulate) others. For that matter, it is fairly easy to lure children into illicit behavior through the use of deceptive roleplay tactics. It happens in face-to-face interaction with some regularity as it is. It happens in virtual interaction even more frequently because deception is so much easier to accomplish when interaction is obfuscated by the sheild of computer communication. None of us likely disputes this.
Even if we can verify the participants of pedophilia-like behavior are consenting adults, you'll still have to convince me this is somehow effective therapy, or somehow brings the persons involved lasting, substantial benefit. On the contrary, it seems very likely based on the empirical evidence I've encountered (which, once upon a time, I dared to attempt to refute) that online-only relationships of a romantic nature are ultimately more damaging and unsatisfactory than real, honest, face-to-face relationships with real people. Friendships of course are no problem, but romance is tough enough face to face. :) How are you going to convince me that mutual masterbation fantasy is somehow better than no fantasy?
Whatever better therapies there are for pedophilia, there seems no genuine utility in letting pedophiles express this behavior online where they can perform their actions more or less anonymously. In truth it's a dangerous proposition that all of us who own grids should work very hard to squelch out wherever we suspect it, lest we find ourselves one day personally responsible for its harmful effects on people we know. It's a crime for a reason.
I don't want to provide any shelter for this activity, and I don't want anyone I know to be hurt by it. Nor do I want that blood on my hands.
Great conversation, and as always a pleasure, Otto. :)
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You said, "On the other hand, everyone needs a safe place and we can't just kill them all or push them into suicide, because there is no help that society has to offer other than locking them away."
I agree absolutely with this observation. Some level of therapy and compassion is needed. I have no argument with that position whatsoever.
There are some serious problems with allowing pedophiles into virtual communities, however, that we as responsible adults just can't sidestep in the name of compassion.
First of all, within these relatively anonymous communities, there is no way to ensure the accuracy of much of anything stated as truth. If I say, for example, that I'm over 18 years old, you have only my word on it. You happen to believe it's true in my case, but you can't prove or disprove it. Meanwhile kids posing as adults (and adults posing as kids) run rampant throughout the internet and in particular throughout virtual communities like these, where there are rarely any relatively foolproof methods employed to ensure a particular account is being used by an adult.
How do you prove, then, that the participants in any encounter are all adults? We have evidence that "catfishing" of underage persons is a common occurance on the internet through something as informal as Twitter or Facebook. Deception is pretty simple to employ, and in fact it's a very attractive prospect for a large number of people who might desire to impress or influence (read: manipulate) others. For that matter, it is fairly easy to lure children into illicit behavior through the use of deceptive roleplay tactics. It happens in face-to-face interaction with some regularity as it is. It happens in virtual interaction even more frequently because deception is so much easier to accomplish when interaction is obfuscated by the sheild of computer communication. None of us likely disputes this.
Even if we can verify the participants of pedophilia-like behavior are consenting adults, you'll still have to convince me this is somehow effective therapy, or somehow brings the persons involved lasting, substantial benefit. On the contrary, it seems very likely based on the empirical evidence I've encountered (which, once upon a time, I dared to attempt to refute) that online-only relationships of a romantic nature are ultimately more damaging and unsatisfactory than real, honest, face-to-face relationships with real people. Friendships of course are no problem, but romance is tough enough face to face. :) How are you going to convince me that mutual masterbation fantasy is somehow better than no fantasy?
Whatever better therapies there are for pedophilia, there seems no genuine utility in letting pedophiles express this behavior online where they can perform their actions more or less anonymously. In truth it's a dangerous proposition that all of us who own grids should work very hard to squelch out wherever we suspect it, lest we find ourselves one day personally responsible for its harmful effects on people we know. It's a crime for a reason.
I don't want to provide any shelter for this activity, and I don't want anyone I know to be hurt by it. Nor do I want that blood on my hands.
Great conversation, and as always a pleasure, Otto. :)