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There are lots of OpenSim users with top-of-the-line, state-of-the-art machines with a high-end Nvidia gaming graphics card running Windows 11 who complain about Firestorm 7 being terribly slow. In comparison with Firestorm 6 even.
I have hardware that was upper-mid-range in 2018 with AMD graphics running Debian GNU/Linux. I've got nothing to complain about how Firestorm 7 is performing. (Of course, literally nobody here will believe me.)
This either means that I've hit a sweet spot in combining hardware and software. And that the combination of a top-range Intel i9 CPU, an Nvidia GeForce RTX 4090 Ti and Windows 11 is actually objectively slower than the combination of an eight-year-old six-core AMD Ryzen CPU, and AMD Radeon RX 590 and Debian. At least when running Firestorm.
Or this means that everyone else considers a two-digit frame rate a slideshow whereas I've happily capped my frame rate at 30.
What I can comprehend even less is that single-threaded Firestorm 6 is supposed to be faster than multi-threaded Firestorm 7 on a CPU with 12, 16, 24 or more threads.
I have hardware that was upper-mid-range in 2018 with AMD graphics running Debian GNU/Linux. I've got nothing to complain about how Firestorm 7 is performing. (Of course, literally nobody here will believe me.)
This either means that I've hit a sweet spot in combining hardware and software. And that the combination of a top-range Intel i9 CPU, an Nvidia GeForce RTX 4090 Ti and Windows 11 is actually objectively slower than the combination of an eight-year-old six-core AMD Ryzen CPU, and AMD Radeon RX 590 and Debian. At least when running Firestorm.
Or this means that everyone else considers a two-digit frame rate a slideshow whereas I've happily capped my frame rate at 30.
What I can comprehend even less is that single-threaded Firestorm 6 is supposed to be faster than multi-threaded Firestorm 7 on a CPU with 12, 16, 24 or more threads.
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>It could be that WSL2 runs just about everything you throw at it, albeit badly. On native GNU/Linux, and that was what I was talking about, no dice.
Ubuntu, based on Debian is just as 'GNU/Linux' as Debian. I can only assume that what you _meant to say_ was 'running on bare metal' as opposed to running in a virtualized -but that makes no sense because a virtualized enviroment would be _more fragile_ than a bare metal one.
If it runs in WSL2 I could probably get it to run on bare metal as well. The difficult part was finding out what packages had the missing libraries -google is our friend for that. It's quite likely that I could get it to work in Debian GNU/Linux as well as I did in Ubuntu GNU/Linux -the difference is minimal.
>For one, Singularity requires Python 2. Python 2 went out of support on New Year's Eve 2019, and every last distro has removed it ever since.
>But what's even worse: Singularity is written in C++, and large parts of the code are stuck in ca. 2003 and have never been updated since. The last g++ version that could compile Singularity was g++ 4. The last Ubuntu LTS release with g++ 4 was 14.04 "Trusty Tahr" which had its EOL in 2019. Maybe it was still possible to manually install gcc 4 on Ubuntu 16.04 "Xenial Xerus".
That has nothing to do with running the binary, but with rebuilding from source. I already said I wasn't concerned with rebuilding from source so it isn't clear to me why you're banging on about that point. It's moot and has nothing to do with what I was talking about.
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>It could be that WSL2 runs just about everything you throw at it, albeit badly. On native GNU/Linux, and that was what I was talking about, no dice.
Ubuntu, based on Debian is just as 'GNU/Linux' as Debian. I can only assume that what you _meant to say_ was 'running on bare metal' as opposed to running in a virtualized -but that makes no sense because a virtualized enviroment would be _more fragile_ than a bare metal one.
If it runs in WSL2 I could probably get it to run on bare metal as well. The difficult part was finding out what packages had the missing libraries -google is our friend for that. It's quite likely that I could get it to work in Debian GNU/Linux as well as I did in Ubuntu GNU/Linux -the difference is minimal.
>For one, Singularity requires Python 2. Python 2 went out of support on New Year's Eve 2019, and every last distro has removed it ever since.
>But what's even worse: Singularity is written in C++, and large parts of the code are stuck in ca. 2003 and have never been updated since. The last g++ version that could compile Singularity was g++ 4. The last Ubuntu LTS release with g++ 4 was 14.04 "Trusty Tahr" which had its EOL in 2019. Maybe it was still possible to manually install gcc 4 on Ubuntu 16.04 "Xenial Xerus".
That has nothing to do with running the binary, but with rebuilding from source. I already said I wasn't concerned with rebuilding from source so it isn't clear to me why you're banging on about that point. It's moot and has nothing to do with what I was talking about.
The Start Up is slow. I have seen this before a long time ago however once your in runs very nice.vr7.2.3 I am certain this is not a windows 11 issue and i bet the next update they will resolve this. |CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D |GPU AMD Radeon RX 7800 XT
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I'm surrounded by 15 computers. They are my "people". Anyway, this machine is watercooled. :O With dual rtx 5060. Sing it momma! woooowwwwwwwowwwwooooowwww. Anyway firestorm 7.2.3 runs fine. jiggga giggity! >:)
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No problems, although I'm probably wandering through the virtual world in a somewhat exotic way with this:
Firestorm 7.2.3 (80036) Feb 9 2026 21:19:43 (64bit / AVX2)
CPU: Apple M2 (2400 MHz)
Memory: 16384 MB (Used: 2349 MB)
Parallelism: 8
Operating System Version: macOS 26.3.1 Darwin 25.3.0 Darwin Kernel Version 25.3.0: Wed Jan 28 20:56:34 PST 2026; root:xnu-12377.91.3~2/RELEASE_ARM64_T8112 arm64
Graphics card manufacturer: Apple
Graphics card: Apple M2
Graphics card memory: 12124 MB
Graphics card memory (detected): 12124 MB
Graphics card memory (budget): Unlimited
OpenGL version: 4.1 Metal - 90.5
HiDPI display mode:
FPS reduced to 30
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Firestorm 7.2.3 (80036) Feb 9 2026 21:19:43 (64bit / AVX2)
CPU: Apple M2 (2400 MHz)
Memory: 16384 MB (Used: 2349 MB)
Parallelism: 8
Operating System Version: macOS 26.3.1 Darwin 25.3.0 Darwin Kernel Version 25.3.0: Wed Jan 28 20:56:34 PST 2026; root:xnu-12377.91.3~2/RELEASE_ARM64_T8112 arm64
Graphics card manufacturer: Apple
Graphics card: Apple M2
Graphics card memory: 12124 MB
Graphics card memory (detected): 12124 MB
Graphics card memory (budget): Unlimited
OpenGL version: 4.1 Metal - 90.5
HiDPI display mode:
FPS reduced to 30
I'm currently using Firestorm 7.2.3.80036 on Windows 11 Pro with an Intel Core i9 12900F 16x5.1GHz,
64 GB RAM, and a Zotac RTX 5060 Ti OC 16 GB graphics card.
I don't quite understand what Jupiter is writing here. My Firestorm graphics settings are Ultra, everything maxed out, everything enabled, and the view distance is maxed out.
I've limited my FPS to a maximum of 80 in the settings, which is perfectly adequate.
At parties on single sims with a heavy avatar load and numerous fog and lighting effects, I consistently achieve over 50-70 FPS. The CPU usage is practically nonexistent, never exceeding 20%. It's true that this old game engine requires a lot of GPU power, which can sometimes exceed 80% under maximum settings, especially on our 10x10 ocean map. However, even with Prince's modified Firestorm Viewer and a view distance set to 4096 meters (advantageous for flying and speedboat driving), the CPU usage remains below 20%, and the GPU usage at maximum settings only just exceeds 80%. The temperature won't go above 45 degrees celcius.
My only complaint about Firestorm 7.2.3.80036 is its slightly slower texture rendering. On the plus side, it delivers the best graphics results of all the viewers I've tested so far—clearly sharp, which is actually very good for such an old game engine.
Overall, I'm very satisfied with the latest Firestorm Viewer. The only drawback is the slightly delayed texture rendering, which was significantly better in Beta Viewer 7.2.3.80035, where it ran more smoothly. Unfortunately, the Beta Viewer is no longer usable; it has already been deactivated.
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64 GB RAM, and a Zotac RTX 5060 Ti OC 16 GB graphics card.
I don't quite understand what Jupiter is writing here. My Firestorm graphics settings are Ultra, everything maxed out, everything enabled, and the view distance is maxed out.
I've limited my FPS to a maximum of 80 in the settings, which is perfectly adequate.
At parties on single sims with a heavy avatar load and numerous fog and lighting effects, I consistently achieve over 50-70 FPS. The CPU usage is practically nonexistent, never exceeding 20%. It's true that this old game engine requires a lot of GPU power, which can sometimes exceed 80% under maximum settings, especially on our 10x10 ocean map. However, even with Prince's modified Firestorm Viewer and a view distance set to 4096 meters (advantageous for flying and speedboat driving), the CPU usage remains below 20%, and the GPU usage at maximum settings only just exceeds 80%. The temperature won't go above 45 degrees celcius.
My only complaint about Firestorm 7.2.3.80036 is its slightly slower texture rendering. On the plus side, it delivers the best graphics results of all the viewers I've tested so far—clearly sharp, which is actually very good for such an old game engine.
Overall, I'm very satisfied with the latest Firestorm Viewer. The only drawback is the slightly delayed texture rendering, which was significantly better in Beta Viewer 7.2.3.80035, where it ran more smoothly. Unfortunately, the Beta Viewer is no longer usable; it has already been deactivated.
I had version 7 installed. The first day I was excited about it, the second day as well, but on the third day it looked like my CPU was dying and heating up to 100C. I was happy I had Kerish Doctor, because I logged off, switched off my computer, and when I tried to turn it on again it kept looping. I thought, “Shit, the computer died.” I detached my CPU, cleaned it, but I had no cooling paste at home, and here on my island Lanzarote you need to drive forty minutes to get some. So I decided to go back to version 6.6.14. Because i had my computer running again, and after the older version of FS, it runs like a speedy train. And I tell you, I have a really old CPU.
CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7‑4790 CPU @ 3.60GHz (3598.96 MHz)
Memory: 16323 MB (Used: 3672 MB)
Concurrency: 8
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 11 64‑bit (Build 22631.6199)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650/PCIe/SSE2
Graphics Card Memory: 4096 MB
Even the move from the Netherlands to Lanzarote he survived, as hand luggage on the plane.
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CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7‑4790 CPU @ 3.60GHz (3598.96 MHz)
Memory: 16323 MB (Used: 3672 MB)
Concurrency: 8
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 11 64‑bit (Build 22631.6199)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650/PCIe/SSE2
Graphics Card Memory: 4096 MB
Even the move from the Netherlands to Lanzarote he survived, as hand luggage on the plane.
The Windows / Linux debate always continues and I can testify to comments on both sides. I was a MS certifies engineer back in the day and was involved with Windows from the first versions. I also wrote low software for Unix systems and used some of the earliest versions of Ubuntu.
It's hard for most to do a fair comparison between MS and *nix but I can assure you that especially these days MS continues to bloat and *nix continues to get faster.
If you're stuck with Windows at least look at all the different ways you can debloat and optimise it, there are many sources of good info and it can really make a difference.
Stick at it - MS will keep "updating" so you'll have to keep optimising - switch.
Dual booting is possible with care, 2 drives can make it safer.
In the end do what you have to do to get the best out of whatever you use - adding/swapping expensive hardware doesn't always make the difference you'd hope for.
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It's hard for most to do a fair comparison between MS and *nix but I can assure you that especially these days MS continues to bloat and *nix continues to get faster.
If you're stuck with Windows at least look at all the different ways you can debloat and optimise it, there are many sources of good info and it can really make a difference.
Stick at it - MS will keep "updating" so you'll have to keep optimising - switch.
Dual booting is possible with care, 2 drives can make it safer.
In the end do what you have to do to get the best out of whatever you use - adding/swapping expensive hardware doesn't always make the difference you'd hope for.
Also, the whole Windows ecosystem is based upon buying new stuff again and again because the old stuff will stop working.
You'll have to buy new hardware all the time because either Windows or the latest Windows drivers for your hardware don't support your current hardware anymore. Windows 11 itself hardly supports any computers from the 2010s, and Windows 12 won't run on anything made before the mid-2020s because it'll absolutely require an NPU. Old games won't run anymore because Windows doesn't support their old DirectX version anymore, much less old OpenGL, so you'll have to abandon them and buy new ones. And, of course, new hardware and new games will require new Windows versions to be bought.
I think nothing shows the difference between Windows and *nix like Steam's own hardware that boots GNU/Linux-based SteamOS. How can the Steam Deck run modern-day games so smoothly, all without the same issues that befell the Atari Lynx and the SEGA Game Gear back in the day (granted, that was when NiCd rechargeable batteries were all the rage, and lithium-based batteries weren't even science-fiction), while Windows gamers have to shell out much more money for a Windows gaming laptop that performs similarly?
And now we have the Steam Machine that, small as it may be, has got what it takes to take on both much more expensive high-end Windows gaming rigs and dongled-up consoles, the latter also because it's still also a fully-fledged PC.
It's hilarious how some state-of-the-art AAA games are more performant on Wine than on their native Windows. And game devs can no longer afford to not make their games compatible with Wine, now that more and more of their customers are on SteamOS instead of Windows.
Lastly, ask yourself why CachyOS is soaring on DistroWatch. Gamers simply have begun to understand. And distro makers have begun to cater. This, by the way, goes doubly for retro gamers.
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You'll have to buy new hardware all the time because either Windows or the latest Windows drivers for your hardware don't support your current hardware anymore. Windows 11 itself hardly supports any computers from the 2010s, and Windows 12 won't run on anything made before the mid-2020s because it'll absolutely require an NPU. Old games won't run anymore because Windows doesn't support their old DirectX version anymore, much less old OpenGL, so you'll have to abandon them and buy new ones. And, of course, new hardware and new games will require new Windows versions to be bought.
I think nothing shows the difference between Windows and *nix like Steam's own hardware that boots GNU/Linux-based SteamOS. How can the Steam Deck run modern-day games so smoothly, all without the same issues that befell the Atari Lynx and the SEGA Game Gear back in the day (granted, that was when NiCd rechargeable batteries were all the rage, and lithium-based batteries weren't even science-fiction), while Windows gamers have to shell out much more money for a Windows gaming laptop that performs similarly?
And now we have the Steam Machine that, small as it may be, has got what it takes to take on both much more expensive high-end Windows gaming rigs and dongled-up consoles, the latter also because it's still also a fully-fledged PC.
It's hilarious how some state-of-the-art AAA games are more performant on Wine than on their native Windows. And game devs can no longer afford to not make their games compatible with Wine, now that more and more of their customers are on SteamOS instead of Windows.
Lastly, ask yourself why CachyOS is soaring on DistroWatch. Gamers simply have begun to understand. And distro makers have begun to cater. This, by the way, goes doubly for retro gamers.
All true - and at the same time the big name pc and laptop names are withdrawing from installing Windows on new sales because the cost of doing so, not least the support costs make it a bad deal. I believe one big name found that by shipping with Linux reduced user support calls by around two thirds.
Cachy is certainly interesting, I run it along side many other distros, the question is "is it friendly enough out of the box" for people who just want to use the computer for day to day tasks and have no intention of becoming a techie.
It's getting closer, rapidly - and some would argue that you need to be a techie to make Windows usable anyway.
Interesting times for techies, frustrating times for people who just need a reliable working tool.
Many of these don't play AAA games anyway.
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Cachy is certainly interesting, I run it along side many other distros, the question is "is it friendly enough out of the box" for people who just want to use the computer for day to day tasks and have no intention of becoming a techie.
It's getting closer, rapidly - and some would argue that you need to be a techie to make Windows usable anyway.
Interesting times for techies, frustrating times for people who just need a reliable working tool.
Many of these don't play AAA games anyway.
I want my computer to obey ME, not Microsoft so I ditched Windows around the time 7 was becoming popular. My gaming computer is a Lenovo Legion which came with "Malware 11" (software obeys you, malware does not) after the first update the machine became unusable, So I pulled the NVME drive and put in a larger one with Arch Linux already installed on it. THE MACHINE WORKED PERFECTLY. I still have that 1TB NVME drive with windows 11 on it and I cannot even give it away...
I am using a V7 viewer on Arch Linux and I love how it performs, makes my regions look nicer than they looked in v6.
And for EXTRA PEPPER... Arch remains SILENT on Age Verification: no account setup, no installer driven user creation workflow, no centralized app store, no obvious attachment point to that law.
CPU: intel i9 -14900HX (32 processing threads)
GPU: nvidia RTX 4070 Max-Q
RAM: 32 Gig
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I am using a V7 viewer on Arch Linux and I love how it performs, makes my regions look nicer than they looked in v6.
And for EXTRA PEPPER... Arch remains SILENT on Age Verification: no account setup, no installer driven user creation workflow, no centralized app store, no obvious attachment point to that law.
CPU: intel i9 -14900HX (32 processing threads)
GPU: nvidia RTX 4070 Max-Q
RAM: 32 Gig
I'm increasingly inclined to believe that Windows is actually the issue at hand.
Windows 11 must have largely abandoned the technology used by Second Life, OpenSim and their viewers. It simply doesn't support it anymore. That is, Windows never had that much support for OpenGL, always favouring its own native DirectX until very recently when even AAA game devs started flirting with Vulkan.
It doesn't even matter how well Nvidia and AMD support old OpenGL versions (or OpenGL in general) in their own drivers if the host OS doesn't support that stuff anymore.
GNU/Linux, on the other hand, has never abandoned OpenGL. As DirectX is proprietary Windows technology, the free-and-open-source world has had to rely on OpenGL for 3-D acceleration until Vulkan came around. And there are tons of FLOSS games that rely upon OpenGL, and that don't have any resources to be upgraded to Vulkan.
Thus, even modern-day GNU/Linux, be it something rock-solid stable but inherently outdated like LMDE, be it a bleeding-edge rolling release like Arch, has much better support for the old technology that Second Life, OpenSim and the viewers use than modern-day Windows.
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Windows 11 must have largely abandoned the technology used by Second Life, OpenSim and their viewers. It simply doesn't support it anymore. That is, Windows never had that much support for OpenGL, always favouring its own native DirectX until very recently when even AAA game devs started flirting with Vulkan.
It doesn't even matter how well Nvidia and AMD support old OpenGL versions (or OpenGL in general) in their own drivers if the host OS doesn't support that stuff anymore.
GNU/Linux, on the other hand, has never abandoned OpenGL. As DirectX is proprietary Windows technology, the free-and-open-source world has had to rely on OpenGL for 3-D acceleration until Vulkan came around. And there are tons of FLOSS games that rely upon OpenGL, and that don't have any resources to be upgraded to Vulkan.
Thus, even modern-day GNU/Linux, be it something rock-solid stable but inherently outdated like LMDE, be it a bleeding-edge rolling release like Arch, has much better support for the old technology that Second Life, OpenSim and the viewers use than modern-day Windows.
I have a wine prefix I have been using for over 12 years, it runs my old Macromedia Studio (before Adobe absorbed it) and has enabled me to combat planned obsolescence. Windows 11 also has a hardware requirement which disqualifies MANY machines which would otherwise meet or exceed other system specs. DXVK is where the MAGIC happens, DirectX calls are translated to OpenGL allowing many Windows games to work on Linux... LOVE IT
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Lots of text and little substance, as usual from you.
The fact is, Firestorm > 7.1 is a disaster. This isn't just being reported by OS users; SL users are complaining too.
It certainly depends a bit on the graphics card, but that's not the whole story. In my opinion, the density of the simulator is much more crucial. And that's where your expertise ends.
I'm currently running version 7.1.13.78266 on my Linux system. I immediately uninstalled the versions that came after it.
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The fact is, Firestorm > 7.1 is a disaster. This isn't just being reported by OS users; SL users are complaining too.
It certainly depends a bit on the graphics card, but that's not the whole story. In my opinion, the density of the simulator is much more crucial. And that's where your expertise ends.
I'm currently running version 7.1.13.78266 on my Linux system. I immediately uninstalled the versions that came after it.
30fps is plenty i think. i use adaptive so it drops when nothing is going on. i used to run at 144fps but fans running all the time.
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I'm on a laptop with similar specs.
Intel i7 8750H CPU, Nvidia GTX 1050 GPU with 4 GB VRAM, 32 GB DDR4 RAM. 2 TB m2 SSD as the primary drive, containing Windows 11 and Ubuntu Studio. I spend most of my SL/OS time on Studio.
Firestorm 7.x at first was a terrible viewer series for me. As complaints from users with older PC's grew... the Firestorm devs paid some attention and eventually hooked up with some of the Linden devs to find performance fixes. Many of those fixes have benefited me personally. What I don't understand is that I've noticed folks with newer systems complaining more about crashes, and many of them from what I've noticed are on Windows systems. Just my view, but I've seen very few complaints about crashes from Linux users. I have experienced a few myself, but nothing that's a showstopper. Yeah, it's understandable that more complaints come from Windows as there are more of those PC's in existence, including people who multi boot OS's like myself.
As long as SL and OS are still on basically the same, 23-year-old graphical stack that requires Open GL 3.3, and single core CPU speed being largely the main factor in usable performance overall, I think I'll be fine for a while still. As it is I don't create videos or other intensive multimedia projects yet (it's not a typo, I do run Studio, not installed within another Ubuntu flavor :) )... that would be my main reason to upgrade for experiencing SL/OS.
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Intel i7 8750H CPU, Nvidia GTX 1050 GPU with 4 GB VRAM, 32 GB DDR4 RAM. 2 TB m2 SSD as the primary drive, containing Windows 11 and Ubuntu Studio. I spend most of my SL/OS time on Studio.
Firestorm 7.x at first was a terrible viewer series for me. As complaints from users with older PC's grew... the Firestorm devs paid some attention and eventually hooked up with some of the Linden devs to find performance fixes. Many of those fixes have benefited me personally. What I don't understand is that I've noticed folks with newer systems complaining more about crashes, and many of them from what I've noticed are on Windows systems. Just my view, but I've seen very few complaints about crashes from Linux users. I have experienced a few myself, but nothing that's a showstopper. Yeah, it's understandable that more complaints come from Windows as there are more of those PC's in existence, including people who multi boot OS's like myself.
As long as SL and OS are still on basically the same, 23-year-old graphical stack that requires Open GL 3.3, and single core CPU speed being largely the main factor in usable performance overall, I think I'll be fine for a while still. As it is I don't create videos or other intensive multimedia projects yet (it's not a typo, I do run Studio, not installed within another Ubuntu flavor :) )... that would be my main reason to upgrade for experiencing SL/OS.
I'm on a crappy laptop with an insanely with an i3/8 cores but low amount of video ram (128mb if I'm reading it correctly but like 4gb of 'virtual' video ram according to taskmgr which is all kinds of W.T.F.) and FS 7 is a total slide show on this thing. I'm running 6.6.15 (I think?) and it's tolerable but ...marginally. Meanwhile the numbers both report are like 45, sometimes 97 or so -while my screen is at a crawl.
I don't put a lot of stock in the numbers it gives me and I am seriously pining for home and access to a real computer again!
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I don't put a lot of stock in the numbers it gives me and I am seriously pining for home and access to a real computer again!