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When you are in the dark forest and you get the feeling that something dark and evil is standing right behind you...

Wenn dich im finsteren Wald das Gefühl beschleicht, dass was finsteres Böses direkt hinter dir steht..

Mona725: The question is, is it necessary, or useful to mingle with politics in the virtual world, unless you love to ruffle feathers. Many of us builders, and users, use virtual reality to escape the mundane... 3 months ago



VickiJoanne: There's a problem with the very concept of "hate speech" and that is WHO exactly gets to define it? In The Box we've seen the recurrent appearance of one or more people who are clearly either trollin... 5 months ago
Lone Wolf, owner of the Wolf Territories grid, blocked me after I pointed out some technical shortcomings in his grid, deleting my comment from his post and blocking me.

This is the honest policy of some grid managers? what a nice thing, well, his response was really vague, like "my teleports are fast and you don't know what you are talking about on Opensim NGC" or stuttering something like that, but I will leave you my two comments, open your eyes, if there is no technical confrontation there is no good, growing and sharing is also part of that, he seemed like a good person. .. but he is probably afraid and not sure of what he is saying so he deletes uncomfortable comments because he is not strong in his reasons.

Here are my two comments :

I write to you with respect and would like to be honest.

I don't see anything special in this Opensim NGC, it just has preset configurations that are very easy to change, there are other Opensimulator derived projects clearly superior in quality and certainty for creators (see Kitely but that's just an example) and the goals of OS-NGC have been largely achieved by others long before and someone has done even more recently.

Also, you charge $50 (at the exchange rate) for a region, you may have an advanced control panel, but if I were to spend all that money on a grid where teleports don't work and as a creator I have no certainty that my items won't be forced even if I sell them in gloebit (I sell them once and then that's it because they are forced) I would never buy land from you.

You offer huge regions with 1.2 million unusable prims at an excessive cost passing it off as the best technologically advanced grid.

In fact if I were to buy a region and then find myself struggling in teleports, with constant problems loading the scenery around me, or it is simply slow to load the map (because it is very slow for your grid to load the map! "loading in progress..." and you have to wait a long time to visit a place if then the teleport doesn't fail!), if I decide because of these problems (and others) to leave, and I want to save the OAR to take my work with me, but where can I then place it? what grid would offer me a similar and less expensive solution? or maybe even as expensive but fuinctions well? how much of what I build will I lose?

I understand you make people stay there by you because only there they can take advantage of 1.2 million useless prims in huge regions never fully used, slow, where when you walk you feel the heaviness of the scenery (you move slow).

I registered with you intrigued and convinced I would find a technically advanced world, and then never went in again.

Don't brag too much, your grid is average, it may be big but not very functional.

With respect and honesty.

his response was something like "my teleports are among the fastest in opensim and you don't know opensim ngc" and I then said...

Always with honesty, don't feel attacked by me.

Your teleports fail every 50% of the time and the map is super slow to load targets.

Opensim NGC is easily available and its sources are visible from the repositories, and it has nothing special.

I don't think you have faster teleports than other Opensimulator grids, technically you should know how teleports work, other technically savvy users know that more than 50% of the Teleport depends on the viewer having a dedicated time to 'process the scenario before it is shown to you, typically on Firestorm this is about 3 to 5 seconds if I remember correctly, but there are other viewers that are really fast in teleporting, to this you have to add the communication speed of the grid, and yours is not, for example, faster than any domestic DreamGrid, so believe me, you may not know technically what I am talking about, but I know very well, one of the problems with your grid happen after teleporting.

Unfortunately, your large scenario generates slow loading because the viewer has to process the large amounts of terrain.

Your teleports don't always work, those in your grid know this very well (let's exclude the biased people who are with you out of sympathy or brotherhood),

also there is always that talk related to unusable regions outside your grid if I decide to leave with an OAR and this thing is a bit of a strategy to keep the user in your grid, I think all the people you have now as paying users will soon make you realize that a decent control panel does not make a difference, much better the ability to enjoy a functional grid.

Again with respect for your work and with honesty, I also tell you that I understand you, you made billions of posts where you described your best being, and no one ever responded to you, not even those with technical expertise, but in life you have to know how to deal with people.

Anyway, your grid is not bad, it is just hard to live with and very overrated.

cordial greetings.

OpenSimUser: Araya Sunshine seems to not practice anythiong they have been preaching. They had a posting on here whining about all this drama. I simply responded with why bring all the drama here, instead of takin... 1 years ago
It's been advised that every region owner protect themselves by having an OAR of their land. Wise advice, and something to be considered when renting a region, for example, on AviTron. Also advised: Have a copy of your account IAR. What does Alex have to say about this?

AviTron Terms and Conditions
https://avitron.net/terms-and-conditions

From TOS Amendment 8/27/2021
"AviTron does not give out Region OARS and account IARs. Reason being is to protect our free content".

And your free content?

From Section 2.3
"Except as otherwise described in any Additional Terms (such as a contest's official rules) which will govern the submission of your User Content, you hereby grant to AviTron Virtual World, and you agree to grant to AviTron Virtual World, the non-exclusive, unrestricted, unconditional, unlimited, worldwide, irrevocable, perpetual, and cost-free right and license to use, copy, record, distribute, reproduce, disclose, modify, display, publicly perform, transmit, publish, broadcast, translate, make derivative works of, and sell, re-sell or sublicense (through multiple levels)(with respect to each Product or otherwise on the Service as permitted by you through your interactions with the Service), and otherwise exploit in any manner whatsoever, all or any portion of your User Content (and derivative works thereof), for any purpose whatsoever in all formats, on or through any media, software, formula, or medium now known or hereafter developed, and with any technology or devices now known or hereafter developed, and to advertise, market, and promote the same."

Copper: 5 lines..and 7 times "I"..the great shamaladingdong continues rofl. This ego isnt to describe :-( 2 years ago

📝 "No politics in OpenSim?" A statement from me

Just to be clear, no, I am not a friend of Donald Trump. Nevertheless, I find some of the reactions to my last post completely exaggerated and almost ridiculous. In America, the opposing parties insu...

I have seen a post or two lately on a topic that I feel i need to write about. There is a lot of Misinformation going around online and in world. I have been contemplating writing this for a few months until i saw a post that drew the line.

I mean no disrespect by my post, its only to educate others. please be respectful when commenting. Also my post is not to enforce a certain lifestyle or kink onto anyone. Its solely for education purposes only.

The majority online and in world seems to think that either a child avatar or a child avatar having sex with an adult is Ageplay. This is not Ageplay!

Ageplay is where an adult portrays a younger age and wears clothes that makes them partially look the part but yet still have the appearance of an adult. Also Ageplay can be between 2 consenting adults, one looking like a full adult and the other wearing childish clothes but still has appearance of an adult.

If you see a child avatar and an adult having sex, that is not in no way anything to do with Ageplay nor is it sexual Ageplay! that is pedo crap which is not tolerated in my grid! Please stop associating it with Ageplay.

if you see a child avatar looking like a real life child, that is also not Ageplay! please dont listen to the wrong information child avatar have passed to everyone online in world.

I have been in the community and an ABDL mom for 11 years and it really frustrates me that people believe a child avatar is Ageplay. please stop listening to them. they are not an Ageplayer by no means.

Please do your research before assuming and thinking what you were told is correct information. I know there are soem child avatars going around saying so what I do Ageplay. that is not Ageplay.

below is a link to a wiki article for those that want to learn more and get a little educated abotu what Ageplay actually is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ageplay

Alexandria: As someone mention before I would like to know what does a ''Child Avatar'' look like because clearly a lot of Grids in OS do not know ''Fully'' on what actual children look like in some cases as some... 10 months ago
Will it be the beginning of the end?

What will the investigations of the federal police or the authorities responsible for oversight find?

Will Linden Lab's partners distance themselves if the platform's structural issues regarding minor avatars and sex are confirmed?

If Amazon were to revoke their server access due to such violations?

Will Second Life survive with limited funds and few users (those psychologically subservient)?

In Europe, if the matter is taken seriously (and it is a serious matter), will we still be allowed to access Second Life?

If specific regulations are applied in Europe and worldwide to control this type of metaverse (SL-Like), will it spell the end for many Opensimulator grids?

But above all, will Opensimulator suffer?

https://community.secondlife.com/blogs/entry/15229-officia...

Sodasullivan: Heh. Guess what Glenn? My facts are on the money. **"Patch Linden? Did you mean "PHIL" who began SecondLife? At least try to get SOME facts right in your search for fame and glory simpleton. Now B... 7 months ago
I want to preface this with the following disclaimer:
I am not trying to shame anyone, nor am I trying to start a riot. I simply want to share this information with the community so that folks can make an informed decision as opposed to, "Well, I read I could do this, so I did it."

God Mode has helped many of us out, especially when it comes to adjusting, retexturing, or outright fixing a mistake. When an avatar leaves a grid or can't be reached to fix permissions on an item they've acquired from a reseller, God Mode makes the impossible, possible. After scripting a full fledged system and then "selling" my parcel with items without setting scripts to full perm, God Mode fixed it. When I accidentally deleted my original 3D model and didn't have the full perm version in my inventory, God Mode came to the rescue. In short: There are times when God Mode is useful and the use of it is justified. Though along the same vein, there are times when God Mode should not be your first choice.

The reason I bring all of this up is that it came to my attention today that an item I spent many hours over the course of many days scripting, adjusting and creating custom textures for, even watching a YouTube tutorial on how to make edits to the mesh in Blender for, and eventually sharing with no-mod script permissions and copy/mod object permissions, was made full perm through the use of God Mode. To add insult to injury, the script was then offered for sale on the Marketplace, where I had intended to sell a good portion of the script myself, sans the model and textures. To be clear, the mesh was not created by me, nor were the original textures, though the textures I included were my own modifications/creations. I take no issue at all with the fact that someone wanted a full perm copy of the mesh, nor do I particularly care about the textures. What I take issue with is the scripting that is now full perm, open source, able to be hacked apart and broken off for use in different ways, and (most infuriatingly) being sold from someone who apparently had no idea how to script to begin with.

As a scripter, and an active store owner in SL, one of the things I love about scripting is that I am secure in knowing that sending out something no-mod means exactly that. Objects, textures, sounds, animations - these could always be accessed or downloaded in some way, form, or fashion. Scripts, on the other hand, were the Fort Knox of creations that could be shared securely. In OpenSim, things function differently; this I find both refreshing and maddening all at once. I spend the majority of my time working on scripting projects and ignoring the builds on my SIMs, partly because I find it engaging and partly because it's something I can give back to the community.

I realize that it sounds very hypocritical to complain that my scripts were made full perm when I essentially did the same thing with the mesh model. I get it. I hear you. I agree with you. To that point: Unlike the case of the mesh model, which the original creator of is not willing to bring over to OpenSim (and yes, I did inquire), my scripts are being created here and shared with the community for free. I offer my scripting ability to the community because I realize that there's a lot of functionality that is readily accessible in SL that can't simply be Marketplaced for cheap, or in most cases for free, for OpenSim. I revel at the idea that something I've made is being shared and appreciated by those who have come across them and/or shared them. My only (simple) ask is that you respect the permissions of the scripts that I provide for use in OpenSim.

I tend to think of myself as a friendly, giving person and I strive to be helpful whenever I can. I'm readily accessible, both in and out of world, and am more than happy to provide you with full perms with nearly anything I create - you just have to take the time to reach out to me and allow me the time to provide you with it. In previous cases, I have never denied someone who has requested a full perm item, nor did it take me longer than 48 hours to respond to the request. Depending on the request, I may not be inclined to provide full perms for a script, but I am more than happy to adjust/change the functionality to suit your needs. This may be because I plan on selling all or part of the script on Marketplace, or because the script was made for a particular use/case, or because someone requested it and asked that I not share it, or simply because it's a script someone paid for and needed adjustments to but didn't know how.

With that said, from now on, I will be including a script/snippet in all of my scripting projects that I release. This will check the creator and permissions of any scripts that are included in the item; should it find that the permissions or creator have changed on the script(s), it will delete the scripts and you will be banned from accessing my regions. I really do hate doing this, but I feel it's necessary to ensure my kindness and time devoted aren't being taken advantage of. So, to reiterate: If you want something of mine full perm, please reach out to me here or in-world instead of using God Mode and alienating yourself from me, my SIMs, and my current/future shares.

TL/DR: God Mode can be your friend, or it can add you to my ban list.

[ Edited To Add ]
I appreciate those of you who came into the comments section with curiosity, concerns, encouragement, and constructive criticism. Quite a few of you have directly messaged me regarding this and I greatly appreciate the thoughts you've all had, ideas offered, as well as the thought provoking insights. At this time, I feel the conversation is getting off topic and becoming less productive and more of an entertainment source, so I feel it's best to leave this one for the archives and lock comments.

DuncanSteuart: Just to play Devil's Advocate, what would stop someone from rezzing the object, stopping all scripts, changing permissions, and copying the script text? Delete the detect-remove-ban routine, rinse, a... 4 months ago
This AviTron Shop Is Great--If You Want To Pay For Stuff That Should Be Free.
CopyKat Grid is home to Grimm, where you can get the pictured outfit, and many more, free and full perm. Or you can go to this AviTron shop and pay TR$10 for the item (changed to no transfer). You can see Jimmy, owner of Grimm, still listed as the creator of the item. (Oops). The shop owner got this--free--at Grimm.

To be fair, I think about everyone has made the mistake of setting an item for sale and forgetting to change the default price of $10 to zero. But a full perm item someone else created, with the sale price already set--to $0 (https://gyazo.com/1cecf29be200eb98b2d1e2ba4f85336d)--doesn't change to a no transfer item sold for $10--unless the new owner changes it on purpose. This was no accident. And this "not an accident" happened to items from Grimm at least 20-30 times at this AviTron shop.

You will see many residents from the great grid of AviTron shopping at Grimm and the countless other quality freebe shops on the CopyKat Grid. Now I know at least one reason why. You never know what you will find on the CopyKat Grid--but one thing is sure. It's gonna be free.

Visit Grimm for your free stuff. Special sale for AviTron members--100% off of Grimm's already low low price of $0. grid.copykat.ovh:12000:Grimm

LATE EDIT: I have now looked at a random selection of other AviTron shops and find they are not charging for items. If you find any, let me know. But for now I'm changing the post to target just this one shop.

Sweetgrl: I love Grimm. 2 years ago
I support Gay Rights, not Gay Wrongs. There is right and there is wrong, let me learn you the difference! Ask me for a free gay pride flag! (not for children, minors, miners, underage, or rugrats! Must be 18+ to come to my grid! No kids allowed!)

Blake Hayvenhurst: I support the human race and do not think in colors, types, tastes, sexual preferences etc. and wish more people did, but as long as we need flags and celebrations we're still far from acceptance. I ... 4 months ago
Sadly... It seems there's a loss of interest among the general population for all things metaverse... People are moving on to other games, or not playing games at all any more, and taking on additional real life work to offset the crazy inflation happening around the world... I've noticed huge down turns in the numbers of people getting into virtual worlds lately. Can't say I blame 'em... All the name calling, in fighting, back biting, hate spewing, trolling, and worse going around.
But it is what it is... What is it? You ask... Well, it's such a huge reduction in numbers that only a small percentage of "hard-core" virtual lifers remain... It's sad... It's unfortunate... We have seen many grids recently shutting their doors and I fear we will see many more admins clicking the red power off button in the future. Anyway to all those leaving, I bid you safe travels, and a happy life. Remember us few lone die-hard souls forever permafrosted into the fabric of the metaverse...

KrisTina: Real stats be like: https://www.hypergridbusiness.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/OpenSim-land-area-May-2024.png 3 months ago
Now that the new PBR-enabled Firestorm is out...

https://opensimworld.com/post/110361

...in case you want to experiment with PBR, and you need materials:

ambientCG offers a whole bunch of PBR materials. Not only are they free-of-charge, but they're licensed under Creative Commons CC0 which is practically the public domain.

https://ambientcg.com/list?type=Material,Atlas,Decal

Susanna_Heller: @Spax Orion btw. not PBR is the issue .. the bad or not so good LL Code is the Issue ... and on the OS Side we have the Issue OS not have a own Viewer .... But that doesn't mean that the problem will ... 4 months ago

Available for FREE and FULLPERM at 3D MUSEUM SIM.. Enjoy :)


Kris Patrick: This is awesome, thanks, Jimmy. 3 years ago

Opensim should be....

  • A Hobby that includes all the copy botted items from sl and everything shared for free.
  • A Hobby that does not include all the copy botted items from sl and everything shared for free.
  • A platform for people to make a little extra pocket money from selling services and items.
  • A for profit decentralised business.
Vote (41)
Voice in Opensim is a vexed question, and whilst most of us don't use it for a whole host of reasons it is a very useful thing to have. But, so long as there has been a 'free' alternative, most have been happy to use Vivox. For most people Vivox is probably fine, but for some there is one very big downside to using this service: it eavesdrops.

Some years ago I was working on an Opensim based solution for remote meetings, a place where we could virtually meet. Probably the most important criteria was security and privacy, so obviously Vivox, with its policy of eavesdropping was a non-starter. I had become aware of the Whisper project, but that only worked with Opensim up to 0.7.6, and whilst the module was then still available, it isn't now. Also, the Whisper project itself was abandonware. In 2014, Zetamex announced a bounty for anyone finishing the work on the Mumble-Whisper voice module, and started a crowdfunder, which predictably, this being Opensim, raised the derisory sum of $62 from four backers... https://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2014/01/zetamex-announce...

Even at the time, it didn't look as if the bounty would be claimed, as Vivox was still a viable option, so of course that's what people went for rather than for an independent voice solution for Opensim. I did try to contact the person behind the project at the time, as I would have liked to have supported the project, but they did not get back to me. The project I was working on didn't progress, but more because of the high entry threshold of Opensim/Second Life. I still have the OARs I made for the project however.

The EchoVoice project announced in late 2021 offered some promise even though the project was looking for $60k in initial funding. A cynic might think that raising a sum like that in Opensim is just pie in the sky, and so it proved. Thus far the project has raised $775 of the needed $60,000. Hypergrid Business described the project as suffering from 'delayed funding'. https://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2022/12/vivox-voice-repl...

And now that Vivox seem to be about to follow through on their decision to close off access to Vivox for most users of Opensim there is now a clamouring. The writing has been on the wall for a very long time, and there have been alternative voice projects launched from within the Opensim community that have been ignored.

At the end of the day we need to take responsibility for our own project. The Opensim project needs lots of things. Opensim needs its own viewer project with all the SL only gunk removing, and arguably a more formally organised Opensim fork project is needed to properly progress the project. But I doubt that any of this will happen because no one will cough up any cash. I know there are some users of Opensim who are extremely cash-strapped, but I reckon that most could afford the odd pound/dollar every once in a while to support projects in Opensim. Even in my most financially straightened times I could always find the odd couple of quid for causes that are important to me. Now that I'm somewhat more financially secure, I can afford to indulge more, but like most, I understandably want to be sure that any project I contribute cash to has a better than evens chance of reaching its goal.

There is only one way we will get the things we want in Opensim, such as a voice module, and that is through paying for them!

EDIT

Some people commenting have adopted an intemperate and abusive tone when making comments. I've deleted a few, (and blocked one persistent offender). Some people have also posted irrelevant comments, which have also been deleted. Please keep comments civil, respectful and on topic.

Arielle: The first question should be how many actually use inworld Voice on a regular basis anyway? I suspect the percentage is small. 1 years ago
I am reading comments on paid content and various markets in OpenSimulator. I would like to share my thoughts and ask you to correct me if I'm wrong and shed some light on the topic.

In my opinion, Kitely has the best system both as a market and a control system. After working with it for a while, they have managed to achieve a significant result. Creators can set content that they don't want to be forced into permissions as non-exportable to other OpenSim grids, thus protecting it from the infamous GOD mode that users across all grids now have. On the other hand, those who want to make their content exportable risk selling fewer copies since it may be forced and potentially distributed everywhere.

I find it very challenging for original OpenSim creators to sell products and come close to the earnings of Second Life. For instance, even if I sell a product as no-transfer, if it ends up in the grid of a user with GOD powers, it will certainly be unlocked. Unlocking content has become an instinctive practice for many users.

It's a different story for those who create original products and release them for free. Even if unlocked, they will not suffer excessive damage (I hope), and people will be more inclined to respect permissions (I hope) and invite others to get their copy directly from the original creator without forcing and redistributing it as a favor for various friends on other grids (doing it discreetly), which can happen with paid products.

I honestly don't believe this problem will be resolved as long as GOD mode is accessible to everyone. Some grids have denied GOD mode to enforce respect for original creators' content, but these are not popular among users who can get everything they want with GOD mode. They prefer, at the same cost, to obtain regions even in poorly performing grids that allow them to do anything.

Another problem is the backup copies of regions. There have been grids that did not allow the default backup of objects without sufficient permissions, but these grids had no luck or popularity. Meanwhile, those who do not apply such restrictions obviously have more success. Even reloading the OAR on a new grid, the original creator could be permanently lost, creating confusion about who the original creator of the product is and whether the object has been purchased or not.

Therefore, honestly, I think selling on more or less renowned grids is limited to one, two, or ten sales, the time it takes for the product to be unlocked, given away, or loaded into other grids via OAR. All of this, except for Kitely, which has an exceptional system for controlling the "products" leaving its platform, a system that they don't publicly share from what I understand.

KrisTina: In an open-source end to end project taking something out isn't just that easy, someone takes something out I can place it back in 2 seconds and compile and go start a standalone and do it anyways. Th... 9 months ago
Whatever we say is a lie is a lie and breaking the rules is a violation. We all know which SIMs are breaking the rules and submitting fake attendance data. We also know why they do it.
I removed their names from here. Only shame remained.
I am ashamed to discuss this matter further.

Thank you for the stones with which you beat me.
================================================





Calm the hysteria!
no one wants you to close regions or stop your work.

I want ONLY and ONLY FAIR GAME!

Is it that hard?

All you know names of SIM with fake visitors list.
Again - i delete shame list.

Excuse me, but it is offensive to me to do this.
I don't know about you, with what impudence and shamelessness you shout that I am driving away the thousands of customers from your overcrowded SIM.
People leave OPENSIM because they go around the beacon popular places looking for PEOPLE and only find bots or abandoned avatars.
No one comes from SL to buy free rags (yes they are lovely!), people want to COMMUNICATE!!!

I know you won't understand me. It's just that you've already closed yourself up in your made-up happiness and don't want to go out and socialize. You can blame me for all your sins. do it! You can post from your dozens of clones created to mimic crowds of supporters.... Ban me, report me, shame me!

And don't shout that someone banned or restricted you! The only one punished in OSW is me, and again because I told the truth that the number of visitors was fake! I confessed and I was punished because the rules are like that!

Want me to delete this SIM and everything on it? OK, but will that erase the lie? Will it bring at least one new user to OpenSIM? Will it remove the six traditionally parked dolls from the new beach party region (yes, yes - the newcomers follow tradition)?

OPEN THE DOOR AND GET OUT AMONG THE PEOPLE.
COMMUNICATE WITH PEOPLE, NOT YOUR OWN COPIES!

And don't worry, I won't make a new list. It's pointless, it's disgraceful.
P.S. No matter how much you don't like the truth, it doesn't change the facts. No matter how many times you repeat lies, they will not become truth.
You are only spoiling the good impression of your other actions...

Nico Kaliani: This post would be vastly improved by changing out the "OK" graphic with a picture of "Otay" Buckwheat Eddie Murphy. 2 years ago
Recently I have had a number of people requesting that I allow child avatars at friends-grid and I want to discuss this openly and honestly.

It is not my place to try and push my morals and values upon others....however, as a grid owner, it is my place to learn the laws of every country involved. In this situation, I need to understand the Child pornography laws of not only where our servers are located, but I also had to research and learn the laws of every country we have residents and guests from. We currently have residents from 30 countries and guests from another 35. People who say "laws dont apply " are incorrect on this subject. You may have servers in one country.....but all the laws of your resident's countries come into play also.

A good thing to remember is that because you have gotten away with something for 10 years does not make it legal. You may never get caught....and then again.....somebody with a grudge may turn you in.

I want to point out a recent post by Jerralyn Franzic . Jerralyn showed the cutest childs outfit ever! ....and she also made the wisest statement ...."I don't understand the hatred towards child avis in Open Sim. Sure, they shouldn't engage in adult activities and maybe not hang in Adult sims but otherwise, what's the problem?" Personally I would love to see kids riding ponies at my farm....and having fun being mermaids. If everyone in child avi were to abide by Jerralyn's statement, there would not be an issue.

However, lets talk about reality. Not all child avis are simply riding ponies and playing in the water. The simple truth is that many (not all) of these child avis are having sex. Some grids use this to boost their traffic. In some countries, including US, the graphic illustration of a child online having sex is 100% illegal. You see, it does not matter if the person behind the computer is 12 or 52......the visual computer generated depiction of a child (child avatar) involved in sex is very illegal in a number of countries. 18 U.S.C. § 2252 Many people will say their countries are different....and this is stupid. I did not make laws........but I need to abide by them. Before people jump on this and criticize me ....I would suggest you read the laws of your country....your servers country...and the laws of all your residents or guests. There are many misinformed people on this subject. I am not saying the laws are right or wrong......but learn the laws.....then comment. You need to learn laws for your servers country...and all your guests countries. This post is not about morals......it is about laws....of all the countries involved.

I have spent over 200 hours reading international laws. Some countries allow things that others do not. However, you have to consider all the laws because of guests.


In closing....do I hate kids and kids avis......nooooooo. I would love to be able to allow them to come to friends grid. However, this is a less than perfect world in which we live, and I have to look at the potential liability of allowing those child avis. Because of that, Child avis are not allowed on friends-grid......no exceptions! I am sad....because there are some wonderful people in kids avis that I do not get to have visit.

Friends-grid is an Adult community and we are looking for adults, with adult avi's who want to make this their main opensim home.


Sodasullivan: I think this is the proper way to address this issue Safine. You are setting the rules YOU are comfortable with on YOUR region. I am fine having my region open to everyone as long as they agree to fol... 7 months ago
Want facts? OK Dorena! Your reporting and shaming will be public. Today I again visited the world famous and over visited Xenovar region from your server dorenas-world.de:8002. Yes, the one that is already 6th in terms of attendance and popularity in OpenSim. Professionally organized region with fixed working hours of the 6 bots that drive the boat. Supposedly protected from landing on it and sitting on it. Trying to talk? Not possible with bots. They are at work. Every morning XenosYifu turns on his computer and activates 6 windows with 6 AFK "avatars" or actually bots! After 12-16 hours of tiring paying in silence and without a single movement, the working day ends and XenosYifu goes to sleep...
Ok, I agree, the problem is with me. I don't like that 5-6 people here have created a network of twins and copies imitating activity.
I understand that you work on paid projects and investors want results. Yes, but the money comes from OUR taxes! I am your employer and you are lying to me!
No matter how much you scream about my sins and how miserable, untalented and bad I am, the facts are that I work and pay taxes. And you and your company steal from me and people like me.
The truth is that it's full of real creators, but no one can see them because you and your friends have occupied OpenSIM, you've clogged the first 50-60 places in the leaderboard with fake regions with no content.
It's time to clean our house of thieves and crooks.

KrisTina: Is Pagane right? imho yes, is this being taken care of in a mature manner? no making a post here or in the chatbox isn't taking care of this in a mature manner, all you have done is make public drama,... 2 years ago
Two days ago I got another ban - NOTHING NEW.
Yes, but this time I was banned by an "admin" who first explained to me how beautiful and seductive I was, and after I ignored him and publicly announced that I was not interested in LGBT communication and guess what: I was banned for provocative clothing - yes, this same that was praised before… (Only to explain, no ban chat - was baned from access to region!)
Honestly, I have to admit that my avatar was quite young, not childish, but definitely young - but NO ONE gave me ANY remarks about that! They loved it!
Well, I don't need to explain any more. Why do I think the LGBT community is insolent and intolerant, why do I think liberal democratic values ​​are trans-gendered and reviled and ... Oh yeah, and why is the bunch of haters here screaming so hysterically at me. Does it make sense to explain?
No.
I'm just leaving this trans-genderized and pedophile haunt.
Who is the person and the network?
Does it matter, since I'm almost sure that in almost all other networks I'm banned for the same reason - refusal of LGBT communication?
Does it matter since everyone has at least a dozen accounts on different networks and... maybe I'm banned by the same fag who occupied all the networks?

CyberGlo CyberStar: Pagane, please tell people it was not me and I had nothing to do with this... Why people always run to me and accuse me is just wrong. I have done nothing wrong. I did not do anything to you. I ha... 3 months ago
All about transgender people. :)
Transgender - From Wikipedia, "A transgender person (often shortened to trans person) is someone whose gender identity differs from that typically associated with the sex they were assigned at birth."

Transexual - A transgender person who desires medical assistance to transistion from one sex to another.

Transgender - includes transmen, transwomen, non-binary, genderqueer,gender 3 people, drag queens, drag kings, cross-dressers.

Gender 3 - A person who is neither a man or a woman.

Being transgender is distinct from sexual orientation, and transgender people may identify as heterosexual (straight), homosexual (gay or lesbian), bisexual, asexual, pansexual, or non-label.

cisgender - gender identity matches assigned sex at birth.

Transfeminine - any person, binary or non-binary, who was assigned male at birth and has a predominantly feminine gender identity or presentation.

Transmasculine - a person, binary or non-binary, who was assigned female at birth who has a predominantly masculine gender identity or presentation.

androphylic transexual - a transexual attracted to men.

gynephilic transexual - a transexual attracted to women.

bisexual transexual - a transexual attracted to both men and women.

asexual transexual - a transexual attracted to neither men or women.

pansexual transexual - a transexual attracted to men and women, but also the entire transexual spectrum.

non binary transexual - agender, androgynous, androgynes, bigender, pangender, or genderfluid, and exist outside of cisnormativity.

agender non-binary transexual - genderless transexual.

androgynous non-binary transexual - identifies as being both male & female simultaneously.

androgynes non-binary transexual - identifies as being beyond both male & female simultaneously.

intergender androgynes non-binary transexual - identifies as being between male & female genders.

bigender non-binary transexual - switches to male or female gender.

genderfluid non-binary transexual - moves between male & female roles.

transvestite - synonym for cross-dresser. a person who dresses in opposite cis gender style.

Faux Queen - woman who does female drag.

Pagane: Some of what I say in this post and others these days makes me angry and sad at the same time. People who aren't affected don't know what it's like to encounter rejection and hatred everywhere just be... 5 months ago
So, someone hacked into the Resurgence server and completely wiped it. Resurgence is gone. To the lowlife who did this, hope you’re happy with yourself. This wasn’t just an attack on me and Mike, it was an attack on a whole community of people and seriously, I don’t think anyone deserves this. Everything is gone. All our backups, OARs, IARs… Knew what you were doing didn’t you.

I’m not sure where to from here, I’m not sure if we will start over, I’m too angry and upset now to make any clear decisions. For now, it’s goodbye from me and Mike… lowlife, you won, congrats.

Zoey

PinDeluca: OMG - Devastated - your place was awesome, and my go to for things ! I am so upset for you. Please try again you had an amazing place ! 10 months ago
Curious! How many people care about rankings? Curious! What do people look for when coming to OSW? What do you use to find things to do on OSW. Is it rankings, region source..be it party, shop, explore. Does someone being #1 or top 10, bother you? For myself, I use OSW to find the latest happenings, in shops , builds, and courses, by new ads from people. Then I check out the events list, for the upcoming events. Look for a good chat, to participate. Lately this chat has been attacks on someone. If there is a problem with someone, should you not use a private chat? Or report to OSW, and have them handle the situation.

Zeus2485 Anton: Everyone who comes here can enjoy the hard work of opensim and the owners nice free shoping dance, stuff and lands meet peoples 2 years ago
TO THE MEMBERS OF SACRARIUM GRID

Your grid and users are not welcome here anymore. Your users have been harassing and messaging racist slurs at opensimworld users for years. You have harassed me personally and my family *in real life*. You keep doing it despite warnings and temporary bans

From now on you are permanently banned from listing and advertising anything from your grid in Opensimworld. Your regions are inactive anyway, they will be removed.

Your abusive accounts will be frozen. Do not attempt to create new ones , they will be removed.

Please advertise your grid etc on: Facebook, Twitter, Mewe, Discord, wherever, anywhere but NOT HERE . Enough is enough, you are not welcome here.
We will not ban reallife body sized avatars just because some people walk around here at 3 meters and imagine that they are children's avatars, No children's avatars are strictly forbidden here!! Anyone who commits character assassination or other insinuations in order to harm us must expect criminal consequences
Mean values ​​of height, weight and BMI in women in Germany by age group
18 to 20 years 167.6 62.6 22.3
20 to 25 years 167.5 64.1 22.9
25 to 30 years 167.3 66 23.6
30 to 35 years 167.2 68.2 24.4
35 to 40 years 167.3 68.3 24.4
40 to 45 years 167.5 69.3 24.8
45 to 50 years 167.1 70.9 25.4
50 to 55 years 167.1 71 25.4
55 to 60 years 166.9 71.5 25.7
60 to 65 years 165.4 71.2 26.1
65 to 70 years 164.5 70.9 26.3
70 to 75 years 163.9 71 26.5
75 years and over 162.6 67.9 25.7
Total 165.8 69.2 25.2

Ankhsenaton: "Welcome to my world, won't you come on in? Miracles, I guess, still happen now and then..." or "Welcome to the jungle!"... In this virtual world in English, incomprehension and lack of kindness are t... 4 months ago
***Important Announcement to Grid Owners***
I'm an Admin on Wolf Territiories Grid. Our residents, Passionae Love and Chief JudahBean are NOT Passion Jumanji, nor do they have anything to do with her. I have personally voice verified that they are not Passion Jumanji or her alts. Please do not ban them thinking they are Jumanji alts. They only want to visit your grid peacefully and enjoy what open sim has to offer.

FreshVirtualWorld: dont care. keep your drama in Wolf Territiories Grid. ;) 6 months ago

Are you vaccine injured? Help is available, visit Awakening for links for assistance whether that be legal, medical or just to meet with people in your situation.


RemmyRavenhurst: I had a post deleted from this thread so am going to try to repost it here. The gaslighting and coercion that occurred during covid was disgusting. The emotional manipulation was disgusting. The gover... 9 months ago
HI all

My grid had been getting attacked from griefer throwing all items all over the regions even on "no build allowed" regions and can you please ban this fucking person. It not even funny. Why on earth this person want to attack grid for??

Priscilla.Kleenex @hg.zetaworlds.com
ead1400d-b9f4-4755-ae71-c64e491d3782
Priscilla.Kleenex @hg.zetaworlds.com
Priscilla.Kleenex @grid.kitely.com:8002
7979151d-e16c-4a2a-8334-cef0ef1c54ee
Priscilla.Kleenex @partydestinationgrid.com:8002
e372f86c-c018-11ec-8b4a-b42e9949315a

screenshot pic ===> https://gyazo.com/b33d97335214fd141ec3c996f1bbb2c9

Panthera Mayor: The HG Safari did got attack not long ago by annoying griefer and also look this article on HG Safari that actually happened to that grid attack as well since 2012 at https://hgsafari.blogspot.com/201... 3 years ago
Has anyone experienced anything strange with their grids lately? A friend, (honestly not me), thinks that perhaps a worm is travelling through different grids causing the database to lose connectivity with the asset server files. (That's what he said). Apparently osgrid, digiworldz, barefoot grid, and some dreamgrids have been mysteriously affected by this supposed worm. Anyone out there have any information? Maybe it has happened to you? Maybe you know what it is and it is something else?

Ankhsenaton: I had a message from Glenn, first he said : "please let Cyber know a very big thank you for his post!" And about the matter here : " Ok I have tested and through smashing, bashing, and trashing, in ... 4 months ago
With all the name calling that's been going on today I thought i would make a list of the dehumanising language both wings use to attack others. Name calling helps us to feel superior to others and to see others as not quiet human. Its disgusting behaviour and can lead us down a very very dark path. Lets try and keep Opensim a place we can get away from it.

Insults hurled at Right Wingers by the Left:
Basement Dweller
Birther
Christian Sharia
Conned
Conspiritard
Deplorables
Fascist
Misogynist
Neckbeard
Re-thug-licans
Sad!
Starbucks Cup
Teabagger
Trumpkin
Trumpster
Vanilla ISIS / Y'all Qaeda / YeeHawdists
Velcro Shoes
Wrong Side of History

Insults hurled at Left Wingers by the Right:
Beta
Blue Pill
Blue/Purple-Haired
Commie
Coloring Book
CTR (Shill)
Cuck
Feminist
Globalist
Libtard
Low Energy
Marxist
Participation Trophy
PC
Regressive Left
Safe Space
SJW
Snowflake
Trigger/ed
Tolerant Left
Tumblrina

Feel Free to add more.

Pagane: Sounds 100% like my years is socialism era. Socialist leaders use all this against decidents:) Welcome in SOCIALICM! 5 months ago
No llevo mucho tiempo en Open sim, y ya lo e visto practicamente todo. pero lo que mas e notado, el nivel de competencia entre grids, e incluso entre los mismos residentes de un mismo grid. No voy a explayarme demasiado, voy a ser directa y puntal: No voy a apoyar a quien de manera desleal tome lo que alguien a creado para ser COMPARTIDO DE MANERA GRATUITA, y lo venda x la moneda que sea, no importa si es 1... 5 o 1000 $ , las cosas deben FREE PARA TODOS, e creado contenido PROPIO para ser vendido, pero me di cuenta que los negocios deben ser dejados lado en un ambiente que a sido creado para hacer amistades. Chicos de Matrix , tienen el apoyo de nuestra comunidad!

edito y agrego pruebas de que se venden cosas que son GRATUITAS en otros grids https://tianguis.ola.click/products

BearHug: You have no defense. You blame others for your crimes. You take no responsibility. Worst is you also steal and are selling stolen content inworld and on your web site. You are responsible and no other... 2 years ago
LETS SPREAD POSITIVITY NOT HATE!

Lately I have noticed a lot of drama, hate and bashing towards other people. I try to ignore most of it but lately it has become to much. Why do people feel the need to use hateful words or put someone down.

No matter what religion we are, gender, political views or whatever it is, cant we just agree to disagree.

I have seen a lot of people in my time in Opensim do amazing things, anyone that can DJ, build, script and anything else, is awesome to me. For the ones that constantly tell everyone they are awesome its because they are. They do a lot of things i do not know how to do or cant.

So in conclusion, I would like to say thank you to all creators, builders, scripters, and etc, because without all of you, my regions wouldn't look as good as they do. I may take things and place them and put them together but the credits go to the creators, builders and scripters.

Instead of name calling and tearing people down, lets be a little kinder, lets ignore the negative and worry more about spreading positivity.

Comment's welcome but please be kind :)

Mistressdalgato: Any negative and or bashing comments will be deleted 3 months ago
Asking for money is not the solution.

In the past, as Copper mentioned, Opensimulator users have already been "cheated." So why go further and ask them for money when many grid owners might need funds to keep their grid running as a hobby and source of entertainment, where they don't earn much money?

The individuals who design Opensimulator, to whom we owe our deepest gratitude, and those who work on derivatives, those who offer "ALL-IN-ONE" solutions like Fred with Dream and Kubwa with their product, do not receive money to feed their families. Even there, there are hours and hours of work, programming, bug fixing; it's not just a simple pastime. Programming to offer a free product is a highly demanding passion.

There's no need to fund the EchoVoice project and continually ask for money. It would be more appropriate to try to find a programmer and contributors to work on an active project, making it compatible with Opensimulator, perhaps developing it in parallel. That would be fantastic, or a team of volunteers who start from scratch by studying the protocols.

Why do I have this idea? Simply because every grid owner could load voice software onto their server in this way, having an independent and parallel voice in Opensimulator.

Why am I against funding EchoVoice? Simply because it would fund a company that employs a programmer and centralizes the voice server, limiting users' freedom of use. I don't believe this is the right path.

Furthermore, the campaign opened by someone insists on saying that open source and projects created by volunteers don't pay rent and don't provide food. I respond again by inviting all of you to think about Ubit, who manages Opensimulator and the contributors to the project, about Fred with Dream Grid that many of you use, and about Kubwa. But this is just one example in the opensim world. There are authors of many viewers who do it out of passion without earning anything. But to go further, it's not true that Red Hat Linux is paid for; all GNU/Linux distributions are free, services are paid for. So, this person who claims that even Linux is paid for is trying to make you believe something that is absolutely not true. Paying for advanced support service or some defined pro features in Linux is equivalent to having something exclusive that that company offers. But even there, you pay about $99 a year to have a SERVICE.

With EchoVoice, you end up funding a company that will need to ask for funding every time until it can generate its own money to pay a programmer for a simple update. Is it based on Opensimulator? If Ubit were to ask for $1 a month for everyone using his (and the contributors') hard work, he would be very wealthy. The same goes for Dream Grid, and this is where the difference lies: the passion with which you program without asking for money, because perhaps through donations you can still achieve a sum.

These individuals, as well as others behind free projects that don't ask for money, started programming and working without asking for anything; that's how trust is gained.

And anyhow, centralizing the EchoVoice service would be wrong.

Think it over carefully.

OpenLife: If you really feel like paying, support Opensimulator programmers and all contributors, support this website, the grids where you live (even more than one if necessary), but be cautious of those who a... 1 years ago
I like to drop a post every now and then on another virtual universe I'm involved in developing, with a working name of Starlite Galaxies. It's a user-content generated world like SL and Opensim, but not based on their code. A complete new game engine has been written from the ground up in proprietary codebase using C++, utilizing the Vulkan API instead of OpenGL. The universe will not be compatible with opensim code, but we are discussing a bridge option down the road to allow opensim users to visit. The game is currently approaching alpha testing for which all slots are filled.

The top shot is a helmet readily available on 3D model sites that we use to test our handling of PBR materials and shaders. This one is reflecting the environment we dropped it in and running at 4910 fps on full blast graphics using a GeForce 3060 card (I believe this is the same helmet visible in the recent SL tutorial on their version of PBR)

The bottom image is an asteroid field with 50,000 physical objects all orbiting a central mass independently of one another. We wanted to find a breaking point, but only got the fps down to 720 fps.

We also are testing on a variety of lower end machines to find baselines for the graphics and physics. But if you want to go full-bore gaming using VR, controllers, joysticks, flight-sim equipment, etc., then all of that capability is already there and working. Probably would only want to use VR with your feet on the ground. We found flying ships in VR was...unsettling.

See my Facebook page for larger images: https://www.facebook.com/LunariaEmporium

Jupiter Rowland: @Arielle: When I say "OpenSim devs", I DO mean those who created OpenSim, the source code and everything. I also said that there are people who believe that these slogans have always been an official... 2 years ago
I've been reading the ChatBox all day today...and I'm laughing....

There is a proverb that says : "The Devil when he wants your soul licks your hands..."

The thing that makes me laugh is that here you have been trashing avitron users for 3 years, blocking them, accusing them and avoiding them like the plague (not all but many many avitron users, some of them here even when they left ferraris, complained about being excluded everywhere) when the real problem was Alex Ferraris and not the people of Avitron.

Now you are all prissy friends of these people, all good to them ready to welcome them....

Now you look for them because you know it was a great community in terms of the number of active people and it makes you gluttonous, how hypocritical you are those who act this way.

They even invite users to bring Avitron content, made by great and experienced botters, Avitron users who have a lot of "rare" content that makes you gluttonous.

Instead, there are grids with enormous dignity such as AlternateMetaverse, SoulGrid, PlayGround, Wolf Territories (yes this time I am speaking well of them because they don't go begging for users), Germanworld, VirtualHG, OSGrid and others who are not trying to grab users they used to gross out, they simply go on their way and if any of these users register they will be welcome.

Kudos to the grids that are not begging for users.

And by the way remember, some people if you avoided them before because they had habits that you thought were wrong, they don't just heal out of nowhere, they will always have those habits.

try to be COHERENT with your actions.

OpenLife: For Chris84, you deserve to know who you and all the others are, I am.... I am... Philip Rosedal!!! yes that's right, no I am Elon Musk, and now I will adopt the X here as my profile picture! Long li... 1 years ago
Safinemaohe2, the owner of Friends Grid, who should therefore be friendly and understanding to everyone and be open to all as she says, deleted a completely simple comment of mine, where I was responding to her sugary post claiming that Josh Boam dedicated himself to her and her grid, setting aside all his other commitments.

So in my comment, I simply pointed out that it would be interesting to understand the nature of the problem with her grid, because SHE pays a service directly to Josh Boam and therefore, BY PAYING, she is entitled to assistance. No one responded to the problem, not even her; instead, a series of useless aggressive comments started, and then Safine deleted my comment because it was probably uncomfortable for the usual advertising and devotion she has always shown towards Boam without any REAL reason, but only because he does his job (which, by the way, isn't even done well since he had to ask for help from Lone Wolf, the only one who truly helped in that situation without charging a dollar! and therefore deserving of thanks).

In my comment, I pointed out that Boam just did his job and that she, of whom I now doubt even pays considering the publicity she gives him for a grid that is absolutely average and also poorly functional, I would say, and not innovative at all with also high costs.

Dear Safinemaohe, by deleting my comment, you have shown your real position of absolute servility towards Boam and anything but a friendly condition of openness towards others, drop the mask because if you can't handle a realistic comment where there are no sycophants, you'd better stay silent, it would make you look better.

Furthermore, in your post, it seems that the Opensimulator community does not help each other, when instead FROM NICO TO PAGANE EVEN TO MISTRESSDELGADO THE WHOLE COMMUNITY HAS ALWAYS HELPED EACH OTHER BETWEEN GRIDS TO TRY TO SOLVE ANOTHER'S PROBLEM, SO YOUR POST, BESIDES BEING USELESS AS AN ACT OF BOOTLICKING AND ALSO SILLY BECAUSE YOU PAY FOR SUCH A SERVICE, IS ALSO OFFENSIVE TOWARDS THOSE WHO STRIVE TO HELP OTHERS.

Have a good day! (you can now unleash in the comments!)

OpenLife: @Mistressdelgato Said : "I have helped a few people and others have helped me. i help when i can and know the answer. If i dont know it i recommend people who can and know the answer." And what did... 9 months ago
ADVISORY: If you are NEW to Opensim, there are many choices for worlds to live in. Do yourself a favor and run a background check on ANY GRID before you open your wallet.

Google search: Alex Pomposelli site:hypergridbusiness.com

Spax Orion: Knowing what this operator has done in the past, I would be doing a major disservice to the community by being silent. Is it wrong to warn others of potential danger based on a proven track record? If... 2 years ago
Dorena's World is one of the oldest grids ever. I've seen many come and go. When OSW opened its doors, we were already a few years behind us. Inworld has built up a community between the grids, which ultimately works well here even without the portal. Bots, no bots, afk avatars or not. I find it extremely embarrassing at what some people here are getting upset about and letting one crazy person drive them crazy. As far as the real number of visitors is concerned, the visitor boards inworld usually show completely different data than here. I can recommend Pagane to see a good psychiatrist in real life. I mean that honestly, without any mockery. What she says here..

Dorenas World ist eines der ältesten Grids überhaupt. Ich habe schon viele kommen und gehen sehen. Als OSW seine Pforten öffnete, hatten wir schon einige Jahre hinter uns. Inworld hat sich zwischen den Grids eine Community aufgebaut, die letztendlich auch ohne dem Portal hier bestens funktioniert. Bots, keine Bots, Afk-Avatare oder nicht. Ich finde es im höchsten Massen peinlich über, was sich einige hier aufregen und sich von einer einzigen verrückten Person kirre machen lassen. Was die echten Besucherzahlen betrifft, die Besucherboards inworld zeigen meist eh ganz andere Daten an, als hier. Pagane kann ich empfehlen, im realen Leben einen guten Psychiater aufzusuchen. Das meine ich ehrlich, ganz ohne Spott. Was sie hier von sich gibt,...

Pagane: It makes absolutely no difference who was what before. Hitler was a good artist and Genghis Khan a meek shepherd... Isn't it easier if we all stop lying and look forward??? Look around - there is alre... 2 years ago
Okay.. so being in the top10 grids has its issues.... Metaverselife has experienced DDOS attacks for over a week straight.... Unexpected but not unanticipated. Since a large number of Avitron grids residents have created accounts and taken land in Metaverse the attacks have been daily and persistent. Ive read quite a bit about the owner of said grid and have no doubt in my mind that there are ample motivations for such a person to cause such distress to others.4 years of this grid and minimal issues .. praying for his lost soul,..and adding CloudFlare..

TrisTH: You need a firewall that tells you the IPs where the attacks are coming from and block them. In addition to blocking certain countries that you know are not your users. An aspiration system would also... 2 years ago
causing some drama.... look, Opensim is based on avatars whether that be dog, dragon, dinke, or anime , "who you want to be"... so my question to you ... does that mean family, significate others or what??? Me. myself, I want a family ... we are a "G" grid, so far I have an older sister and a twin brother.... IDK, i think it's kewl... what are your thoughts?

Misty_Falls: quoted from the SL wiki page There are a great many reasons to play a child within Second Life, and it is plenty likely that every person playing a child might have their own reasons. Here are six. 1... 2 years ago
Society 3D

1 members

Ruth and Roth

15 members

Rev World

6 members

Scottish Pride

4 members

FUNSIZE EXPLORERS

2 members

Adultalicous Fantasies

1 members

Capitular

1 members

The Factory Community

3 members

WyndFall

2 members